Balanced treatment of Ulster history

[McElmurry]

I am interested in learning about the history of Ulster and would appreciate recommendations for books that provide a balanced treatment of the subject.

[cajunscot]

I am interested in learning about the history of Ulster and would appreciate recommendations for books that provide a balanced treatment of the subject.

For a very good look at the Ulster background of the "Scots-Irish", I recommend James Leyburn's The Scotch-Irish: a social history, published by the University of North Carolina press. It was first published back in the 1960s, but it still stands the test of time, apart from the somewhat dated title. When folks are researching their Ulster-Scottish heritage, this is the first book I recommend to them.

Regards,

Todd

[slohairt]

Do you mean the history of the whole province or post-Plantation?

[McElmurry]

Do you mean the history of the whole province or post-Plantation?

I am interested in the entire province from first humans to present day. Some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish (Ramage, Adair) but others may be of Ulster origin (McElmurry and McCollum). I am interest in both groups.

[BoldHighlander]

For a very good look at the Ulster background of the "Scots-Irish", I recommend James Leyburn's The Scotch-Irish: a social history, published by the University of North Carolina press. It was first published back in the 1960s, but it still stands the test of time, apart from the somewhat dated title. When folks are researching their Ulster-Scottish heritage, this is the first book I recommend to them.

Thanks Todd, I'll have to check it out

I am interested in the entire province from first humans to present day. Some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish (Ramage, Adair) but others may be of Ulster origin (McElmurry and McCollum). I am interest in both groups.

I'm in the same boat: Scots-Irish (McReynolds/MacRanald etc) & Ulster (Ó Mórdha/O'More - Moore).

[MacBean]

I highly recommend Jonathan Bardon's "A History of Ulster", by Blackstaff Press (N. Ireland). I have a copy and went to look for it, but can't find it. Oh bother!

[cajunscot]

I am interested in the entire province from first humans to present day. Some of my ancestors are Scots-Irish (Ramage, Adair) but others may be of Ulster origin (McElmurry and McCollum). I am interest in both groups.

The Scots-Irish settled in Ulster. Are you per chance referring to the Ulster Scots and the Catholic Irish in your query.

T.

[McElmurry]

Some of my ancestors are quintessential Scots-Irish including descendants of a Presbyterian minister in Northern Ireland (Adair) who sent his sons back to Edinburgh to be educated. This group called Scots-Irish is very well documented and often discussed. But there are two surnames in my tree (McElmurry and McCollum) which appear in their Irish Gaelic versions (Mac Giolla Mhuire and Mac Gil Colum) in the Annals of the Four Masters and date prior to 1200 AD in Ulster. Folks trying to sell tartans will happily tell you these names are Scottish but things are not quite that simple. By 1860 the McElmurrys in Arkansas are Methodist but they immigrated about 1750 and spent several generations at the very edge of the frontier. It is probably safe to assume if they were in Ulster in the 13th century they were Catholic at that time. It is commonly said that most Irish in America are Catholic and that may be true of those who came to the cities during the potato famines, but what about the Ulster Irish who worked side by side the Scottish and English on the plantations for over 100 years with Presbyterian and Methodist and Anglican missionaries and women tempting them away from Rome? And did all the Ulster Irish stay behind in Ulster when the Scots (and probably some English) left for cheap land and religious freedom? I believe there is a group of Ulster Irish that came to America mixed in with the Scots-Irish and the McElmurrys may belong to that group. Whether they gave up Catholicism in Ulster or on the frontier I do not know.

So I guess that is a long way to say yes and no, I am talking about the Ulster Scots and the Protestant Ulster Irish that immigrated with them prior to the revolution. This second group is rarely discussed but I believe they did exist although perhaps in small numbers.

[BoldHighlander]

So I guess that is a long way to say yes and no, I am talking about the Ulster Scots and the Protestant Ulster Irish that immigrated with them prior to the revolution. This second group is rarely discussed but I believe they did exist although perhaps in small numbers.

My Ulster Irish (O'More's /Moore's) were Quakers at the time they came over, settling in SW Virginia (near the VA, Tennessee, No Carolina borders) before the Rev' War.

I have no idea when they would've converted, but I believe it was in the 1500's, as they seemed to have traveled (traded?) between Co. Antrim & Glasgow (according to the 'paper trail') & I believe they were Quakers during this period.

[slohairt]

Some of my ancestors are quintessential Scots-Irish including descendants of a Presbyterian minister in Northern Ireland (Adair) who sent his sons back to Edinburgh to be educated. This group called Scots-Irish is very well documented and often discussed. But there are two surnames in my tree (McElmurry and McCollum) which appear in their Irish Gaelic versions (Mac Giolla Mhuire and Mac Gil Colum) in the Annals of the Four Masters and date prior to 1200 AD in Ulster. Folks trying to sell tartans will happily tell you these names are Scottish but things are not quite that simple. By 1860 the McElmurrys in Arkansas are Methodist but they immigrated about 1750 and spent several generations at the very edge of the frontier. It is probably safe to assume if they were in Ulster in the 13th century they were Catholic at that time. It is commonly said that most Irish in America are Catholic and that may be true of those who came to the cities during the potato famines, but what about the Ulster Irish who worked side by side the Scottish and English on the plantations for over 100 years with Presbyterian and Methodist and Anglican missionaries and women tempting them away from Rome? And did all the Ulster Irish stay behind in Ulster when the Scots (and probably some English) left for cheap land and religious freedom? I believe there is a group of Ulster Irish that came to America mixed in with the Scots-Irish and the McElmurrys may belong to that group. Whether they gave up Catholicism in Ulster or on the frontier I do not know.

So I guess that is a long way to say yes and no, I am talking about the Ulster Scots and the Protestant Ulster Irish that immigrated with them prior to the revolution. This second group is rarely discussed but I believe they did exist although perhaps in small numbers.

Exactly. Not all Northern Protestants were of Planter stock, some were native Irish who converted. Also, there was a Scottish presence in Ulster long before the Plantation: The Gallowglass. As they were Gaelic-speaking and Catholic, they were assimilated into the local populace even faster than the Normans a couple of centuries prior.