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  1. #1
    EdinSteve is offline Membership Suspended for repeated rule violations.
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    Highland Scots and their integration into native American life

    Saw this interesting article which gave an interesting, if not entirely positive, view of highland Scots in America -
    https://lenathehyena.wordpress.com/2...american-life/

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  3. #2
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    The nature of the forces at work meant that almost no hands were clean, and almost every player made moves that
    could be interpreted variously. Millions of pounds of deer hides and beaver pelts crossed the Atlantic from Savannah
    and Charleston, much of it through Scots hands. Scots and native folk found common ground through their clan
    structures, which, though different, made the Scots a better fit with natives than were the English. Jefferson was
    known to admire the ways in which the native folk lived on the land, but regretfully acknowledged the need for the land
    would take precedence over all else.

    Making credit available hugely, axes, knives, fabrics, and alcohol were hauled in and hides and tobacco paid for it. When
    the credit extended was huge enough, a call for payment was made. Though the prevailing thought among native folk
    was that they did not own the land, they were willing to vacate to satisfy the settling of debt. Where that was not
    sufficient, other means came into play. MacGillivray and MacIntosh were cousins, and competent, and they did their best
    to get something for the native folk, but read the writing on the wall. Much went into their own pockets, many natives
    learned to own plantations and slaves. Many natives became slaves. The tribes recognized the need for leadership that
    could interact on even terms with the British or Spanish, and followed both MacIntosh and MacGillivray. When inevitably
    the land was gone, the blame fell on the Scots, and they died. Interestingly, Washington was asked about taking on the
    Crown and the Empire and the fear that might result. He answered that the only man on this continent that engendered
    fear in him was Alexander MacGillivray, whose influence was such that he could put out a call for a day and time for a fight
    and assemble as many as 10,000 men on the field. Washington never had that luxury, and though not overawed, he
    accepted the reality of MacGillivray's influence.

    And yes, as noted in the linked material, ironically folk from all parts of the British Isles treated folk here as poorly as they
    themselves had been treated back home. As it was, so it often continues to be. Perhaps we'll improve.
    Last edited by tripleblessed; 15th February 19 at 12:49 AM.

  4. #3
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    Interesting article, to which I may possibly have a personal connection. My 7x grandfather, Alexander Kilpatrick, was one of the early settlers in the backcountry around 1718 in what is now South Carolina. There was a book published in 1978 called Historical Southern Families which detailed the known history of much of these settlers. It describes him as an Indian trader (furs, amongst other things), plantation owner (including slaves), and peacekeeper licensed by the colonial government. It also mentions that he was married to a Magdalen MacGillivray (the daughter of Farquhar MacGillivray, who was chief of the clan back in Scotland). He was known to have been a partner with a lot of MacGillivrays in the colonies, and in fact he willed some of his money to a Lachlan MacGillivray. It may possibly be the same one mentioned in this article. He died in 1738, just a few years after Lachlan MacGillivray arrived, which makes me wonder if this is indeed the same person from the article.

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  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobus View Post
    Interesting article, to which I may possibly have a personal connection. My 7x grandfather, Alexander Kilpatrick, was one of the early settlers in the backcountry around 1718 in what is now South Carolina. There was a book published in 1978 called Historical Southern Families which detailed the known history of much of these settlers. It describes him as an Indian trader (furs, amongst other things), plantation owner (including slaves), and peacekeeper licensed by the colonial government. It also mentions that he was married to a Magdalen MacGillivray (the daughter of Farquhar MacGillivray, who was chief of the clan back in Scotland). He was known to have been a partner with a lot of MacGillivrays in the colonies, and in fact he willed some of his money to a Lachlan MacGillivray. It may possibly be the same one mentioned in this article. He died in 1738, just a few years after Lachlan MacGillivray arrived, which makes me wonder if this is indeed the same person from the article.
    Although your Highland ancestor lived in South Carolina, a book in my library by Anthony W. Parker, "Scottish Highlanders in Colonial Georgia" University of Georgia Press, 1997, contains a lot of information about the Highlanders imported by General James Oglethorpe to form the southern buffer zone of his new Georgia colony in the 1730s and 1740s. Due to overpopulation in the Highlands and depressed economic conditions there, Oglethorpe had no trouble recruiting Highlanders (with the permission of their chiefs, of course) to go to Georgia. There they formed the Highland Independent Company of Georgia and the mounted Highland Rangers and did some fighting against the Spanish. One of the appendices contains a listing of Highland immigrants, of which there were some MacGillivrays. Perhaps the information you seek is there.

    Of note, the book outlines Oglethorpe's slave-free concept for his new Georgia colony, and that he strenuously resisted the efforts of South Carolinian magnates to make slavery a "thing" there. After the 1740s, this concept sort of went away (as did Oglethorpe) and Highland immigrants and their descendents became players in the slave economy that developed in Georgia. Likewise, some Highlanders from Georgia engaged in trade with the Native American tribes to the west of the colony's bounds, and later intermarried into the tribes. Interestingly, Oglethorpe was in England recruiting for his green-coated Georgia Rangers when the 1745 Rising broke out, and he participated in that struggle with his recruits, never returning to Georgia. Also present in early Georgia was the original 42nd Regiment of Foot, a redcoat breeched unit. Upon its disbandment in the late 1740s, the 43rd Regiment (aka the Highland Regiment) moved up one number in seniority and became the 42nd Regiment that became world famous as the Black Watch (now 3rd Batt., Royal Regiment of Scotland).
    Last edited by Orvis; 15th February 19 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #5
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    Tobus, good luck on sorting out the confusing and conflicting versions of this period and place. There were several
    Lachlans and Lauchlans in the MacGillivray and MacIntosh families. They were known, inter-related families in Scotland
    and very influential here. Different versions list different fathers for John Mohr MacIntosh. At least three different people identified as John Mohr. The MacGillivrays were residents of Charleston. No, they lived in Savannah. No, they lived in Darien. The regiment wore pants. No, they marched into the square of Darien dressed in their Highland Scottish fashion, yards of wool belted at the waist gathered a skirt formed into a short kilt. There were 177 original settlers. No, John Mohr brought 225 soldiers to defend the southern border, and two years later had to bring more because of casualties. They came because the highlands were over populated. No, they came for land. No, they were wanted by the constabulary.

    Historians write scholarly papers that parrot the sanitized official versions. Even they disagree with each other. Amateur
    genealogists not realizing every generation had five members with the same name make a morass of near impossibility
    to sort out. My ggggreat aunt, born in 1769 in North Carolina of parents from Skye, is recorded in error as the daughter of a man
    born in Prince Edward Island in 1828, son of a man born there in 1827 or 28. She was 59 at birth. Her grandfather was 1or2 at the time. Apparently her father and grandfather had invented a time machine. Except that we have her birth records. She was born in Robeson County, NC; Gillises from Skye who came with Morrison inlaws, several brothers of each family, and continued inter-marrying
    on into Georgia. And are buried in family cemeteries known to us.

    The people who came to these shores came because of no prospects there, and not enough food. There, the king
    owned the land, as had been the case since David solidified his hold on the throne in 1136 and the Norman primogeniture
    and sheriff system became the law of the land. Dukes and earls found out to their dismay that the charters granted them
    were worth less than the parchment they were written on. A careless word, charter revoked, living in their cousin's basement. Clans who held lands for centuries under chiefs chosen by them found they no longer had that right because the king had made that office hereditary and the clan lands had become his personally and they, who had gathered and defended the land, had nothing. Oglethorpe promised land. They came. Who knows if that would have held without the Revolution? Many speak of the clearances as being from 1750 forward about a hundred years. Many who came before that were gentry, at least tack holders. They saw that system disappearing due to absent charter holders and changing land laws, and came for free land or land granted for service. Their land. Not beholden. Often with patent deeds, protecting their ownership if they became infirm and unable to pay taxes. My gggggreat uncle Benjamin in 1767 (in NC) presented the county with a letter endorsed by his brothers attesting that their father William was no longer able to farm, and they having their own families and taxes, were not able to pay for him in addition providing for him and their mother. He was excused from payment through 'til his death, when they sold his farm and theirs and claimed cash free headright grants in Wilkes County, Georgia in 1773. That, of course changed. Patent deeds became rarer and harder to obtain, and tax forfeiture descended upon the land like the plague.

    Below linked is a list illustrating the nature of references. Duplicated names from villages near each other in Invernessshire.
    Many gentry. Many servants. Some killed in battle. It can be sorted; after 70 years of digging and correcting many of my lines have been proved back to Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England, Normandy, Portugal. Some lines disappear within 150
    years. a surprising number are proved back 500 years, some further. We have been both assiduous and very, very lucky
    to find some of the sources we've stumbled onto. In other cases, we're still bumfuzzled. One adoption known, were told
    his adoptive father was his genetic father, ending the mother's marriage. Still looking for proof there.


    http://www.glynngen.com/history/mcin...lysettlers.htm
    Last edited by tripleblessed; 15th February 19 at 12:30 PM.

  8. #6
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    Another place where Highland Scots worked and integrated with Native people was the northern half of the continent. The Montreal based fur trade was significantly dominated by Highland Scots and it's reach spread across dozens of Indigenous Nations and as far as the Pacific Ocean long before Lewis and Clarke. You might find a little Google research interesting. Start with the North West Company it's principal architect was Simon McTavish but he soon recruited his two cousins William and Duncan McGillivray ( I wonder if there is a connection between them and the southern McGillivray's?) and it's eventual absorption into the larger Hudson Bay Company which donminated northern and acrtic trade into the 1960's.

    Other Great explorers and traders out of the NWC/HBC include Simon Frasier, Alexander MacKenzie David Thompson. These men covered most of what is now the NW USA and Canada alone or with small groups traveling, trading and living with Native People through the 1700's and early 1800's.
    Last edited by Singlemalt; 15th February 19 at 02:18 PM.

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