Historical Plain Dress with the Kilt?

[Jock Scot]

In the terms that Dale is talking about, I am way out of my depth and frankly I am not qualified in any way to comment.

[Bugbear]

It's ok, Jock. I was just curious about it in a historical, not contemporary way. No one replied to my clan Barclay thread.

Sometimes posting in this sub-section is like stabbing into the darkness with a long fork until something screams.

We'll see what, if anything, the historians have to say. I'm not finding a lot of information. Stupid Thomas Rawlinson story…

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Are you asking whether any people in Scotland ever dressed in this manner for religious purposes, or simply whether they dressed in such a manner what would fit the physical description of "simple, sturdy, unornamented clothing?" I see these as two distinct questions.

[gary meakin]

I'm no historian but I'm pretty sure the Shakers and Quakers were English.
I would assume not too many of them moved to Scotland for religious freedom.
And if they did, I think they would have avoided wearing the kilt as it would be the opposite of plain dress. (unless they had black utilikilts 300 years ago)

[Bugbear]

Are you asking whether any people in Scotland ever dressed in this manner for religious purposes, or simply whether they dressed in such a manner what would fit the physical description of "simple, sturdy, unornamented clothing?" I see these as two distinct questions.

I apologize, Matt; I haven't been clear enough.

Is there any historical evidence of a kilt or belted plaid being worn in a religious "plain dress" manner . The kilt is the key.

I think I have primary descriptions of Quakers dressing in plain dress in Scotland, but I don't recall anything specifically from the Highlands. There may be other groups, as well.

It might be interesting to know if plain dress was practiced by any groups in the Highlands over the years, with or without the kilt, but I am trying to keep this aimed more toward the kilt.

[ThistleDown]

Yes, Ted, but not as a requirement of religion, simply a requirement of economy. No money, no fancy buttons or even buttons at all. To my knowledge there were no Quakers in the HIghlands in the 17C, if that's the time-frame you are seeking. And no Highland dress in the Lowlands where there might have been.

[Bugbear]

Thanks, ThistleDown.

I wasn't limiting the question to the 17C or even necessarily Quakers, just that I know Fox visited Friends in Scotland according to his journals etc., and am more familiar with the Quaker practices. There was, of course, the Barclays; ie Robert Barclay.

I'm looking through the Johnson and Boswell journals of Scotland/Highlands, but I'm going to have to figure out where exactly they were in some of the references to see whether it was England or the Lowlands; that would be 1773. Might turn up nothing.

On web searches, I mostly get the same stuff about Thomas Rawlinson inventing the kilt; I have some problems with that whole story… but it really wouldn't have anything to do with plain dress in the first place; just clogs up the google searches.

[Peter Crowe]

Have been probing around in my heritage lately, and wondering something just out of curiosity.

Is there any historical evidence that "plain dress" using the kilt was ever practiced in Scotland? (probably the Highlands) Thanks for any information or discussion.

Many moons ago Ted, I was an undergraduate in Scottish History and had to do a project on primary sources based on Sir John Sinclair of Ulbster's Statistical Account of Scotland of 1791/92 and the later one commissioned by the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland in the 1830's. I chose to concentrate on my then home parish (during April vacation) of Hawick, in the County of Roxburgh (Scottish Borders).

I have the work in a box in storage somewhere, so I am relying on memory from Second Year undergrad (1998), but I seem to remember there were no members of the Religious Society of Friends in Hawick in 1791/2 but that there were a few by the 1830's. There was no information on where they came from but my conjecture based on local geography was that they were migrants from Cumberland come to work in Hawick's textile industry which was then (early 19th century) expanding quite rapidly.

I would doubt that there were many Friends in the Highlands of Scotland who customarily wore the kilt prior to later during the 19th Century.

Many Lowland Scots Presbyterians in the 17th and 18th centuries would have dressed very plainly (although not as prescriptively as was the custom of the Religious Society of Friends), and worn a broad blue bonnet. Those involved in pastoral farming probably wore shepherd's plaids some of which may have been in a check or self-coloured.

[Bugbear]

Thanks Peter, that's very helpful.

I suppose I should look into the Presbyterian dress practices etc.

[Bugbear]

Well, for what it's worth, I did find something in Fox's journals about the Highlanders chasing Fox and his people out of a town with pitchforks. I'm not sure it really is referring to the Highlands; it's a town called Wigton.
Anyhow, thank you all for your help and replies.