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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollinMacD View Post

    In the U.S. many of these civilian uniforms...took many dress cues from the more flamboyant British, French and Prussian Regimental dress uniforms...
    Most pertinent to XMarks of course are the uniforms of the 79th New York State Militia





    Their 1858-1861 dress uniform is fascinating, in that not a single part of it exactly corresponds with what was worn by the Highland regiments of Scotland at that time (or at any time).

    Rather than doublets they wore jackets of a unique and complex cut. Their Glengarries had two-row dicing. Their sporrans had an interesting five-lobe cantle only seen in the USA.

    Some of the things like the red & white diced hose with marl turnover cuffs, and 18th century style buckled shoes, can be seen in the contemporaneous The Highlanders Of Scotland.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 2nd October 19 at 06:52 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first Europeans on the Guyandotte

  2. The Following 3 Users say 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Richard View Post
    Most pertinent to XMarks of course are the uniforms of the 79th New York State Militia





    Their 1858-1861 dress uniform is fascinating, in that not a single part of it exactly corresponds with what was worn by the Highland regiments of Scotland at that time (or at any time).

    Rather than doublets they wore jackets of a unique and complex cut. Their Glengarries had two-row dicing. Their sporrans had an interesting five-lobe cantle only seen in the USA.

    Some of the things like the red & white diced hose with marl turnover cuffs, and 18th century style buckled shoes, can be seen in the contemporaneous The Highlanders Of Scotland.
    Although the 79th NYSM, Camron Highlanders, where one of several of the militia groups that I was talking about. They did have kilts, but never wore them when called into muster. The did have and wore trews during the Battle of First Manassas. Kilts were left behind. The uniform jacket worn when mustered in was the New York State Militia Jacket with Waterbury NY State brass muffin buttons. Uniformed Jacket piped with light sky blue, jacket was navy blue. After the battle of first Manassas, the 79th regrouped and camped in Alexandria, VA. It was then their Commanding Officer was replaced with Colonel Isaac Stevens, who was a regular US Army officer. The 79th did not like this, they barracked their camp, resulting in amutiny. Their camp was surrounded by the Army of the Potomac, cannon and rifles pointed at them, and they surrendered accepting Colonel Stevens. Several were court-martialed and spent time in prison. As a penalty, the regiment forfeited their regimental colors. During one review the 79th put a Camron plaid on a stick and used that as its Regimental Flag. The 79th, as of March 1862 uniform complied with US standards, under McClellan General Order 1, but did still wear the NYS Militia Jacket until most wore out by 1863. At the battle of Oxen Hill, 1862, Chantilly, VA, Now General Stevens was shot through the mouth, near a fence line as he picked up the US Colors and his last words were, "Onward Highlanders".

    On other tidbit of US Civil War, General Lew Wallace, always carried a piece of Wallace Tartan in his vest pocket, especially at the Battle of Monocacy, where after the battle he removed it and waved it after the battle facing his troops.. As you know, Lew Wallace later wrote the book, "Ben Hur".
    Allan Collin MacDonald III
    Grandfather - Clan Donald, MacDonald (Clanranald) /MacBride, Antigonish, NS, 1791
    Grandmother - Clan Chisholm of Strathglass, West River, Antigonish, 1803
    Scottish Roots: Knoidart, Inverness, Scotland, then to Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada.

  4. #13
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    OC, as you so often remind me, the depth and breadth of the knowledge available here is amazing.

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollinMacD View Post
    As an American Civil War Historian, I can surmise that during the 1840 through 1860 (beginning of the American Civil War), there was in the U.S., England, and France, a large interest and increase of organizing civilian military marching bands and rifle drill teams for competition on the town greens. Most popular were Ellseworth's Zouaves, the Phoenix Zouaves, Irish Rifles Team, Duryea Zouaves, Meagher's Zouaves and the list goes on. Many of these Civilian based groups used a Civilian made flamboyant Military or Militia type outfit, travelled around the country doing competitions for best bands and drill teajms.

    In the U.S. many of these civilian uniforms, were NOT associated with US Military at that time, took many dress cues from the more flamboyant British, French and Prussian Regimental dress uniforms, using many bright colors of reds, greens, blues, grays etc. For exempt the New England 1st Regiment, which usedcivilian band musicians adopted the British Bearskin Headgear, and wore grey and blue uniforms modelled after the French. Although they eventually became state militia, as the sense of Civil War grew near, they did start out as Civilian, the same with the 5th Massachuesetts, which contained the Salem Zouaves, who were a drill team with short red Zouave style jackets, with French gold embroidered kepis, also had the Leather Shako too, and grey trousers with white cross leather straps, and carried Enfield Tower Rifles. While the rifle drill teams work the Shako, with French Hunting Horn, and blue uniforms. Some uniforms of the civil groups became Militia Groups on the call to arms of 1861 and carried into the Civil War.



    So in Scotland or England I would guess this trend toward military influenced uniforms carried over to the civilian world.

    Even womens dress had a military flavor during the mid-19th century. I am sure you heard of the French Zouaves, well womens fashion had the short Zouave Jacket, with matching skirt


    A Zouave Soldier, 5th NY.



    So, I know this is a little off the subject title, but I think the influence of the Military from earlier military clothing changed and influenced civil dress, especially as military activites became popular for civilian rifle drill team and marching band competitions in the mid 19th century, which did carry over to the early 20th century. After WWI is these competitions died, less the High School Marching Bands. However, to this day we still see the influence of Military Style design, in both women's and men's clothing lines. From the trench coat to the Navy Pea Coat, it is considered fashionable.
    Colin - I am not sufficiently expert to comment on U.S. Civil War civilian and military fashion (except where the U.S. Marine Corps is concerned), but I can say that during the 18th century military fashions often followed what was popular in civilian fashion. One didn't see civilians walking around wearing mitre caps or fur grenadier caps, but soldiers did copy civilian styles in coats, breeches, gaiters, perukes, hats, etc. I believe this trend continued into the 19th century.

    Incidentally (and certainly having nothing to do with Highland dress), the illustration of the bandsmen wearing bright scarlet frock coats has nothing to do with U.S. militia, but is a depiction of the U.S. Marine Band (The President's Own) in November, 1863 during their trip to Gettysburg, Pennsylvania with President Lincoln to participate in the dedication of the U.S. Military Cemetery. Since its founding in 1798, the Band has maintained the 18th century tradition of wearing full-dress coats of reversed colors (scarlet with blue trim) compared to the dress coats worn by other Marines (blue with red trim). Marine Corps uniforms in the Civil War period were mandated by the Uniform Regulations of 1859, which largely followed civilian fashion trends (as well as being influenced by French military fashion, as were the rest of the U.S. military, including militia and home guard units, such as Zouaves). The bandsman with the clarinet is Principle Musician/Leader of the Band Francis Scala, and the individual with the mace and busby (made of not of fur, but of black Astracan lambskin) is Drum Major John Roach. The Marine officer wearing the undress blue uniform in the center is 2dLt Henry Clay Cochrane, who was assigned by the Colonel Commandant of the Corps to escort the Band (which then had no commissioned officers) on its trip to Gettysburg.

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