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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    Who in their right mind goes onto a school campus with a knife???
    A valid point indeed. I will be kilted at a (American) football pre-game event (as I have for the last two years) and will have my sgian. The obvious difference is the university police in Mississippi know that everyone has a knife and are not intimidated by a 2 1/2 inch blade. If confronted, I can deposit it into the car.
    Steve correctly sees the need to change attire when the atmosphere is appropriate. Therefore, no football games for me in Montreal.

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  3. #12
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    26th September 05
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    Who in their right mind goes onto a school campus with a knife???
    The Medieval History student club, AKA SCA student group having fighting practice.

    Guy at the receiving dock opening up pallets of textbooks

    its a university full of adults, not a daycare full of defenseless babies

    OK I take that back, universities are full of crybabys who get triggered and discombobulated by the sight of faux fur on a coat collar.....

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  5. #13
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    4th September 16
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    Feel free to correct me, but my understanding of the sgian dubh goes something like this:

    Old timey Scotland was a dangerous place and you didn't go anywhere unarmed (kinda like the Kansas-Missouri border in the 1800s and in some places today). When gathering to scheme, drink ale and/or lie to each other, weapons would be checked at the door, but you always kept a small knife hidden (black knife) to defend yourself should the home be raided by another clan.
    Out of respect for your host (if you had any), you would take the knife out of hiding, and place it in your hose where it could be seen and accessed.

    Therefore, the sgian dubh shouldn't be paraded around in public anymore than a person with a concealed handgun would strap it on his/her belt outside the clothing. You're just inviting attention and trouble.

    I wouldn't display a knife walking through campus, a grocery store, or the local pub. But I do have one in my pocket at all times.

  6. #14
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    Perhaps he should have been carrying a Carabin, since that is the name of the University's sports teams.

    I wonder if their fencing team uses bayonets on the ends of Carabin's for their matches?

  7. #15
    Join Date
    6th July 07
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    I think a certain amount of realism needs to be had here and one can only hope that common sense prevails. The SD is not and has never been some sort of Ninja-Commando-Fighting knife. It was and is a tool, that in dire circumstances could be brought into action as a weapon, just like a cricket bat could.

    You may be interested to know, in Scotland and the UK(I think England has slightly different legislation) our police have a zero tolerance to knives, there are exceptions that we don't need to go into here, however as part of National Dress the SD is entirely legal to wear throughout the UK. Wave it about in a menacing way and you are in trouble. However common sense is needed where one carries our SD though, even in Scotland.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 5th November 16 at 09:56 AM. Reason: found my glasses
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  9. #16
    Join Date
    24th September 04
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    OK the comments to this thread are no longer about a media story but have begun to discuss the Sgian itself.

    Thread moved to the weapons section
    Steve Ashton
    Forum Owner

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    OK the comments to this thread are no longer about a media story but have begun to discuss the Sgian itself.

    Thread moved to the weapons section
    I don't mean to be obtuse Steve, but I seriously question that the SD is a weapon. Its certainly part of Scottish Highland attire and as such, is regarded as part of Scotland's National Attire . Can you clarify your thinking on this please?
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 5th November 16 at 10:09 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

  12. #18
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    Anybody ever watch Law and Order on TV?

    " In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups: the police, who investigate crime; and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories."

    While WE may want to jump up and down and set our hair on fire because of this story, it isn't anything we have not identified on this forum before. When can I/Should I wear the sgian dubh and when is it best to leave it at home. So we should not be surprised by this story. WE can also tie ourselves in knots as to whether the sgian dubh is a weapon or a tool or a letter opener. But ask anyone who isn't as fastidious as we are and they would say, "That's a knife". I think it was Jock who noted that in Scotland there is an exception made for the sgian dubh when worn with highland dress - but please pay attention to the word "exception". There is a law and in this case, we are not going to enforce it.

    The police in this case sought to apply a law. That's their job. Were they perhaps a little overzealous? Yeah, I think so, but they did their job. I hope the piper in question take it to court. I hope he is well supported by his regiment and the Scottish community in Montreal. I hope the judge throws it out.

  13. #19
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    I am no legal man, but I am not so sure that UK laws make an "exception" to the SD. I think its more of a recognition and a consideration, that the SD is part of National Attire.
    Last edited by Jock Scot; 5th November 16 at 10:21 AM.
    " Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherence of idle minds and minor tyrants". Field Marshal Lord Slim.

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  15. #20
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    19th August 13
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    Sgain Dubh

    Like Jock Scot, I do not consider myself a legal man but I do know that there is no prohibition against knives under Criminal Code of Canada. So called switch blades are prohibited. I would gather that Montreal has a municipal by-law they may be trying to enforce and while it makes for a great "I am shocked and outraged story," this gentleman has not been convicted of anything thus far and should he appear in court, plead guilty and explain the significance of the Sgian to the judge he may well get the charge dismissed. The ticket they handed him is among the same variety as riding your bicycle without a bell or failing to clean up your dog's mess.

    These types of stories are why many of the pipers in Canadian Highland Regiments get a Sgain Dubh Tattoo on their leg and leave the real thing home.

    I have worn mine in Montreal often, sometimes in the company of policeman, who never took notice.
    "All the great things are simple and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honour, duty, mercy, hope." Winston Churchill

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