[CMcG]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Before I reply, let me say that this thread has been very entertaining and interesting. I am delighted to note that the "modernists" have not really succeeded in re-inventing the wheel!

Semi -dress sporrans are neither "fish nor fowl" in my book and I do wish that people who don't know what they are buying, would not talk themselves into parting with their hard earned cash thinking they are making a good compromise. In my view they are not. They would be better, by far, to put their money towards a good day sporran and a good dress sporran. In passing, I was not the only one who passed comment on kilt height, hose height and sporrans.

Indeed you were not the only one commenting on kilt height, hose height and sporrans and I appreciate the reminder. These things slipped my mind when I attempted a summary, which speaks to the volume and mass of this thread!

As for a sporran with the outfits in question, are you suggesting a daywear sporran before 6 pm and dress sporran for evening? Anyone else care to chime in? I wasn't able to glean a clear answer or consensus from the thread...

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by Tobus

That is exactly where I was coming from with my comment on the kilt/jacket combination. This may be a case where the olive color in the jacket does match the hue of the tartan perfectly when seen up-close. But from afar, the contrasting colors in the tartan seem to change the hue. And since the jacket is a large area of the same color without the contrasting colors interspersed, the visual effect does not carry through. As for whether Highland gentlemen shouldn't worry about such things, I won't claim to speak for anyone. But surely there's some level of personal taste involved when choosing what goes with what. Everybody pays attention to color to some degree when picking what they're going to wear. One needn't match perfectly all the time, but that doesn't mean an outfit shouldn't be well coordinated if the wearer doesn't want to look foolish. I just don't understand how we can be as nit-picky as we are about sleeve length, minute details on jacket cuts, hose length and color, which sporrans go with which style jackets, and all the other minutiae involved in "proper" Highland dress, and then say that color coordination isn't something that should be worried about at all.

I think you are making life far too complicated. However I can see why you and others don't understand "the highland way of thinking". We have had years of experience of kilt wearing, many here have not, we know what goes with what, we know how to bend the rules, we know what does not work, we(some of us anyway) also may have generations of assorted kilt wear in the cupboard and are quite used to wearing Great Grand Fathers sporran, with uncle's jacket, with modern shoes, with some bonnet picked up in the secondhand shop----none of it if bought from new (as you chaps are doing) would match anything! You chaps, with the greatest respect, do not have that opportunity. So you ask a whole host of questions based on what you do know from your own clothing experience and try to adapt that to the "new" thing --kilt wearing and then you get all confused.

[Jock Scot]

Originally Posted by CMcG

Indeed you were not the only one commenting on kilt height, hose height and sporrans and I appreciate the reminder. These things slipped my mind when I attempted a summary, which speaks to the volume and mass of this thread! As for a sporran with the outfits in question, are you suggesting a daywear sporran before 6 pm and dress sporran for evening? Anyone else care to chime in? I wasn't able to glean a clear answer or consensus from the thread...

Broadly speaking , yes I am. The obvious exception being if you start with a day sporran at say 1300 hrs and the "do" goes on after 1800 hrs then the day sporran is alright.There are also other exceptions, such as say, an informal and quiet evening meal with the wife, or girlfriend where evening wear may not be worn, then a day sporran is fine.

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by OC Richard

Yes I fully agree that we shouldn't worry about matching tweed to tartan. But on the other hand it's better if there's something about the colours that harmonises somehow.

In that particular outfit, there's a bright acidic periwinkle-ishness about that tartan that, to my eye, is totally at odds with the soft olive tones of the jacket.

The kilt, hose, and necktie are setting up one sort of colour scheme, the jacket is setting up another.

The dark blue hose suggest to my eye that a jacket in blue tones might be better.

Robert's examples are lovely.

While I feel the outfit in question works as it is, I would never say it can't be improved. I do like the idea of a blue tweed for this tartan. I've seen a beautiful lovat blue crail jacket and waistcoat (at Scotweb? by Manley Richardson?) that would look smashing with it, in my humble opinion. In reference to the hose, perhaps a pair of lovat green hose with a diced hose top with some blue in it would pulled this ensemble together in better style.

I too, have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and have found it quite enlightening. If all threads are as entertaining and informative as this one I feel lucky to have joined X Marks. I have to thank Nick (Scotweb) for recommending it and wish I had found it on my own a long time ago!

[Bee]

Originally Posted by CMcG

snip snip.. I believe the judgement lies not in an appeal to traditional or contemporary values; rather, ladies like to see knees, so don't hide 'em!

YES! I agree 100%! More knees!!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Originally Posted by Tobus

I just don't understand how we can be as nit-picky as we are about sleeve length, minute details on jacket cuts... and then say that color coordination isn't something that should be worried about at all.

Hi Tobus,

I can appreciate where you are coming from on this, but I think you may have overlooked the fact that no matter how well colour co-ordingated a jacket may be, if it doesn't properly fit, it will look, to some degree, dreadful and detract from (or spoil) the overall look of the outfit.

The first question one should ask regarding their jacket should be (1) "does it fit?" Then ask, (2) "is it clean?" And finally, after asking "Where are my car keys?" the last question should be (3) "do these colours co-ordinate well with my kilt, shirt, and tie?"

[Phil]

Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown

if it doesn't properly fit, it will look, to some degree, dreadful and detract from (or spoil) the overall look of the outfit.

A bit like wearing the dreaded p@@nts half way up your calves. They just don't look right, no matter how well colour-coordinated they are.

[OC Richard]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I think you are making life far too complicated. However I can see why you and others don't understand "the highland way of thinking".

I think I partly "get" what you're talking about, for example I've seen many old photos of actual Highlanders in Highland dress wearing tweed kilt jackets with a rather strong pattern, actually rather tartan-like in some cases. This creates an effect with the tartan of the kilt that would probably be considered to be clashing, in "normal" fashion: in womens' fashion, in other words, a jacket like that wouldn't be considered to "work" with a skirt like that.

But one sees that very combination in Highland Dress over and over, and one's "eye" accepts it as being traditional and normal.

Celtic peoples have long had a love for pattern and colour. Perhaps that's part of the "Highland way".

[CMcG]

The lack of understanding or appreciation of the Highland Way may be part of the reason for the monochromatic or muted palettes of the OP. Or it may just be an alternative with all due respect and comprehension of the Highland Way. I guess it depends on who's wearing it!

It should be noted by those interested in matching that it can be dreadfully difficult to coordinate multiple versions of the same colour i.e. not all blacks are the same black and two close-but-not-the-same shades can actually clash

Much better to go with very different shades like sky blue paired with navy blue, to use neutral colours (grey goes with everything) or contrasting colours like black and white.

[kunie]

I wore kilts on highland games but not in other situations (cheap and ugly things). The picture in the OP with the man in kilt playing pool changed that.(it's a bigger picture of 3 man actually) For the first time seeing a contemporary kilt outfit made my heart jump. Maybe it's because I'm a little younger than most of you. Maybe it's because I'm a designer myself and like a more modern style. I don't know. I love the dark contamporary styles not the crunchy ties. On the other hand I like traditions and correct styling. So even wearing an all black kilt outfit it should fit and be worn correctly. i know I don't always, and I'm ashamed of myself on those moments. at this moment I have to make due with what I have and can't afford a handmade outfit.