[andyfg]

I am enjoying spring break on the Jersey shore. It's been delightful and I have been reading "The Nice and the Good," by Iris Murdoch. (Great book)

This caught my attention, on page 268 (Penguin edition): "Or should we say 'the veil" like one says "the kilt'?"

So what do you say, "I like to wear kilts," or I like to wear the kilt" when speaking about kilts in the plural?

[Bugbear]

That depends completely on who I am speaking to. If the person has said "kilts" and that is the term the person is comfortable with, I will use that. If I am getting the impression that a person would prefer the term "the kilt," then I will do my best to use that term.

I'll point out that I speak American English, so there's an ify-ness to it. I'll correct them if they want me to call it a "skilt" though.

Now that I look at it again, I'm not so sure that "I like to wear the kilt" is a plural form of kilt...

[Ozman1944]

Does the Veil have to match the Kilt?

(Sorry, I'm starting St. Patrick's Day early...)

[SportBilly]

I haven't read the book in question, but it seems to me that the prefix 'the' would apply only if kilt is a proper noun wouldn't it?

[andyfg]

Originally Posted by SportBilly

I haven't read the book in question, but it seems to me that the prefix 'the' would apply only if kilt is a proper noun wouldn't it?

I think that may be technically correct, though a proper noun usually starts with a capital letter. Yet, it seems by tradition "the kilt" has been the way to speak of more than one kilt. "Kilts" seems to have a more general appeal, though. I'm curious if any Xmarkers stick with the tradition, if it is such.

[cacunn]

I am not an English language major, but, it is my understanding that the term "the" in the context of "the kilt" would refer to a very specific kilt. I understand that in the United Kingdom the say "I am going to hospital" not as in the US "I am going to the hospital" Strictly speaking the UK version would indicate they are going to any hospital were as the US version assumes that you know the specific hospital they are going to.

From Dictionary.Com pertaining to "the"

(used, esp. before a noun, with a specifying or particularizing effect, as opposed to the indefinite or generalizing force of the indefinite article a or an): the book you gave me; Come into the house.

So saying I wear "the veil" it would be assumed that they are speaking of only one type of veil related to some specific activity. In this case they are saying "I am a nun." If you say "I wear the kilt" in the same vein then you would be indicating that there is one supreme kilt that you wear and that everyone knows which tartan that is.

For some of the Tartanist on this forum this may be true. They wear "the kilt" that kilt is in their family tartan, there is no other kilt that they should wear and that everyone should know that.

Now my question is for the Sisters on this site do they wear "the veil and the kilt" or do they wear "the veil and kilts"?

[Jock Scot]

I am not too sure of the grammatical niceties and I would not be the least bit surprised if there is a difference between one side of the Atlantic and the other.I/we would say "the kilt "as singular.For example, I would say;"I wear the kilt to watch rugby" or "we wear the kilt to watch rugby".I would also say "I saw the Black Watch parade today wearing the kilt and so was I".Any help?

[cacunn]

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

I am not too sure of the grammatical niceties and I would not be the least bit surprised if there is a difference between one side of the Atlantic and the other.I/we would say "the kilt "as singular.For example, I would say;"I wear the kilt to watch rugby" or "we wear the kilt to watch rugby".I would also say "I saw the Black Watch parade today wearing the kilt and so was I".Any help?

I believe the correct grammar would be that "I wear a kilt to watch rugby" However, when saying "I saw the Black Watch parade today wearing the kilt and so was I" I could be assumed that "the kilt" being worn by the Black Watch was the Black Watch tartan and that you also were wearing a Black Watch kilt.

Now it must be remembered that in many cases spoken, written and grammatically correct language are not the same thing. Also remember that as has been said before the US and UK are two countries separated by a common language.

I just went back to Dictionary.Com and the second definition for "the" is:

"(used to mark a proper noun, natural phenomenon, ship, building, time, point of the compass, branch of endeavor, or field of study as something well-known or unique): the sun; the Alps; the Queen Elizabeth; the past; the West."

or definition number 4:

(used to mark a noun as indicating the best-known, most approved, most important, most satisfying, etc.): the skiing center of the U.S.; If you're going to work hard, now is the time.

I think this applies more directly.

[Jock Scot]

Hello Cacunn,I am no expert on grammer, so all I can say is how we say things,right or wrong,here in Scotland.We say "the kilt" as does Mr. C. Thompson in his book title "so you're going to wear the kilt.".Whether we are using correct English I know not,but there we go.All the best,Jock.

[Jack Daw]

I wear the kilt. I just got #7 last week.