Irish National tartan questions

**Hosehead** · 6th March 06, 09:01 AM

Well, I ended up in an interesting discussion last evening.

A gentleman that is involved with helping us get our Emerald Society Pipe and Drum set up locally started a little battle with me over the "Irish National" tartan.

My understanding is that House of Edgar registered this tartan.

He gave me an earful claiming that "Pipers Cove", a pipe/drum supply store in New Jersey, "has the patent" for this tartan, and is suing Stillwater because of its use.

I dismissed him as being full of bunk. The people who always tell me I am wrong about these tartan issues are always using 'Official' or 'Patent' in their descriptions, and that is usually the red flag for me.

I am still pretty new at this, but sometimes I get frustrated when I have to argue in favor of one of the few things I think I do know.

Can anyone shed any more light on this? Is Irish National a HOE tartan, or someone elses? (Please note, I am aware that there is no 'Official' Irish tartan of any kind, from what I have been told...so we can leave out that part of the discussion...LOL)...

Thanks,

KL

**Zardoz** · 6th March 06, 09:17 AM

here's link;

http://www.tartans.scotland.net/tart...tartan_id=1386

'Irish National' is part of the House of Edgar "Irish County" Range.

The 'Ireland's National' like USA Kilts sells, is part of Viking Ltd.'s (scottishkilts.net) "Irish County Crest" range, made by Marton Mills.

It seems like about the only Irish universal tartan that was actually created by the Irish is the Irish Diaspora, also from HOE, http://www.houseofedgar.com/acatalog...ock_lines.html

**GlassMan** · 6th March 06, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Hosehead

Well, I ended up in an interesting discussion last evening.

A gentleman that is involved with helping us get our Emerald Society Pipe and Drum set up locally started a little battle with me over the "Irish National" tartan.

My understanding is that House of Edgar registered this tartan.

He gave me an earful claiming that "Pipers Cove", a pipe/drum supply store in New Jersey, "has the patent" for this tartan, and is suing Stillwater because of its use.

I dismissed him as being full of bunk. The people who always tell me I am wrong about these tartan issues are always using 'Official' or 'Patent' in their descriptions, and that is usually the red flag for me.

I am still pretty new at this, but sometimes I get frustrated when I have to argue in favor of one of the few things I think I do know.

Can anyone shed any more light on this? Is Irish National a HOE tartan, or someone elses? (Please note, I am aware that there is no 'Official' Irish tartan of any kind, from what I have been told...so we can leave out that part of the discussion...LOL)...

Thanks,

KL

Part of the big clue is that in the US (which is where a NJ company would file it's paperwork) a Patent is official government recognition and a grant of the exclusive right to manufacturer an physical invention, software, chemical formula, or process. If that company had come up with a new and different way to manufactur a tartan they could get a Patent on it.

However, a creative act, such a making a piece of art, writing a book, designing a poster or a pattern in cloth, is not a patentable item. It is copyrightable. By filing a copyright with the Library of Congress the originator of a creative design of any kind gains the exclusive right to make copies for a period of time. So a US company would be seeking a Copyright, not a patent.

Now, the terms a slightly different overseas, but the important thing about your friend's claim is that he is saying that a US company is the originator and so they would be claiming copyright infringement, not patent infringement.

**ByDand** · 6th March 06, 10:05 AM

It's real simple....go to www.stillwaterkilts.com and scroll down the front page to see the explanation about the Irish National Tartan. Not much needs to be said after reading the disclaimer!

**michael steinrok** · 6th March 06, 11:23 AM

Opinions are like backsides every one has one.I have two Irish Nats. one 5yard one 2006 Stillwater. Get what you like!

**RockyR** · 6th March 06, 01:39 PM

I had thought that the owner of Piper's Cove had designed and patented it and that HOE used it under liscense in their "Irish line" of fashion tartans...

When I checked 2 different sources online, I found this:

"Produced for Macnaughtons of Pitlochry in a collection of trade tartans, designed for ex-pat Irish by the House of Edgar.
The source of tartan 2245 was: Polly Wittering. House Of Edgar. "

(Keep in mind that "MacNaughton Holdings" is HOE). Not sure what the real deal is here... maybe Jerry from SW can elaborate.

Ireland's National is a COMLETELY different tartan.

**Sciuropterus** · 6th March 06, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by RockyR

I had thought that the owner of Piper's Cove had designed and patented it and that HOE used it under liscense in their "Irish line" of fashion tartans...

When I checked 2 different sources online, I found this:

"Produced for Macnaughtons of Pitlochry in a collection of trade tartans, designed for ex-pat Irish by the House of Edgar.
The source of tartan 2245 was: Polly Wittering. House Of Edgar. "

(Keep in mind that "MacNaughton Holdings" is HOE). Not sure what the real deal is here... maybe Jerry from SW can elaborate.

Ireland's National is a COMLETELY different tartan.

I was not aware that we are being sued, but I do have a rather messy desk, perhaps I should go through my pile of mail again...Hmm...This envelope looks very official, let's take a look...Wow! I may already be a winner!

Anyway...We are operating on the position the HoE/Macnaughton has the rights, I have no reason to think it is otherwise. If there was a claim, I'm sure it would have been ironed out sometime in the last TEN YEARS that the tartan has been around. Pipers Cove does not mention it on their website, and they rent HoE Irish National kilts, so I think this topic is settled for now.

**michael steinrok** · 6th March 06, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sciuropterus

I was not aware that we are being sued, but I do have a rather messy desk, perhaps I should go through my pile of mail again...Hmm...This envelope looks very official, let's take a look...Wow! I may already be a winner!

Anyway...We are operating on the position the HoE/Macnaughton has the rights, I have no reason to think it is otherwise. If there was a claim, I'm sure it would have been ironed out sometime in the last TEN YEARS that the tartan has been around. Pipers Cove does not mention it on their website, and they rent HoE Irish National kilts, so I think this topic is settled for now.

Any chance of getting a Sciuropterus shirt or clan badge?

**Gordon** · 6th March 06, 04:44 PM

there is also a "Celtic Pride" which is similar to Irish National, and which is not confined/patented although it is registered with Scottish Tartan Authority.

**RockyR** · 7th March 06, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Sciuropterus

I was not aware that we are being sued, but I do have a rather messy desk, perhaps I should go through my pile of mail again...Hmm...This envelope looks very official, let's take a look...Wow! I may already be a winner!

Anyway...We are operating on the position the HoE/Macnaughton has the rights, I have no reason to think it is otherwise. If there was a claim, I'm sure it would have been ironed out sometime in the last TEN YEARS that the tartan has been around. Pipers Cove does not mention it on their website, and they rent HoE Irish National kilts, so I think this topic is settled for now.

Hey Jerry... thanks for clearing it up! That's kind of what I gathered after reading the ownership rights on 2 tartan sites, but I figured I'd ask you!