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Thread: The Kilt Kops

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chas View Post
    Jordan - of course, you can keep your badge.

    Just pin it somewhere under your kilt, where it will be nice and handy!

    But no pictures!

    Regards

    Chas

    Jordan that is very funny do you really have a badge or just the art work? My brother has been a Policeman for 39 years and collect all types of badges. I would love to get him one if they are available.
    Santa Kona
    Founder & Chairman of Clan Claus Society
    Chieftain Clan Kennedy

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome View Post
    You know, there is a way you can tell someone that the basting stitches ought to be removed before wearing the kilt out like that which would come across as friendly advice, rather than rude snobbery. Really, was anyone doing that gent any favors by allowing him to walk around the Games all day like that and NOT telling him?

    Someone said a few posts up that it is important to realize the difference between fact and opinion. That is very true. I think it is also important to realize that not everyone who gives their opinion or advice is being the "Kilt Police."

    I have a quote which I often repeat from Stuart Ruaidri Erskine that says "The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."

    That is all basically true, and I repeat it so often because one trend in Highland dress that I think needs combating is this tendency some have to make the whole thing into a uniform. Unless you are a member of some uniformed organization (the military, or a pipe band, etc) which requires you to wear the kilt in a certain way, there truly are no RULES that dictate how you should wear the kilt.

    But there is another trend that I think also needs combating that is the polar opposite. This is the idea that anything goes, one way of wearing the kilt is just as appropriate as another, and how dare anyone tell me any different.

    It will be helpful for me to give an example of each of these tendencies. Once I was sternly corrected by a man who had spent some time in the British military. It seems the cuffs on my hose were turned over an inch too short, or too long (can't recall now). I was told in no uncertain terms that I was wearing them wrong. I had to politely remind the gentleman that I was not serving in the military and not wearing a uniform and so not subject to his uniform regulations.

    On the other end of the spectrum, I once saw a man representing his clan in the parade of clans at the Grandfather Mountain Highland Games wearing this: a traditional 8 yard kilt in his clan tartan, no shirt, an open black leather biker's vest, about a dozen heavy gold chains on his neck (ala Mr. T), a horned viking helmet, and on his feet -- not kilt hose and ghillies, no not even boots -- large green furry dinosaur feet bedroom slippers. It honestly looked like he opened his closet that morning and asked himself what was the most ridiculous combination of clothing he could possibly wear. And this was how he chose to represent his clan on parade.

    I think common sense lies somewhere between these two extremes. I think men of reasonable minds and good will can appreciate that while there many not be uniform rules for civilian kilt wearing, there are still "rules" of good fashion and taste, and that these may vary from region to region, circumstance to circumstance, and social group to social group. But it is always helpful to be aware of them, and when we deviate from them, we do so with a reason and purpose in mind.

    Further, we must also appreciate the fact that the kilt is a unique and special garment that has many years of history and tradition behind it, and that tradition should be respected, if not always followed.

    Likewise it is important to remember that the tradition of kilt wearing is still a living tradition, and so subject to change and adaptation.

    A little common sense can go a long way.
    Well said, Matt! Guid on ya!

    T.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome View Post
    I think common sense lies somewhere between these two extremes. I think men of reasonable minds and good will can appreciate that while there many not be uniform rules for civilian kilt wearing, there are still "rules" of good fashion and taste, and that these may vary from region to region, circumstance to circumstance, and social group to social group. But it is always helpful to be aware of them, and when we deviate from them, we do so with a reason and purpose in mind.

    Further, we must also appreciate the fact that the kilt is a unique and special garment that has many years of history and tradition behind it, and that tradition should be respected, if not always followed.

    Likewise it is important to remember that the tradition of kilt wearing is still a living tradition, and so subject to change and adaptation.

    A little common sense can go a long way.
    Pretty much my opinion on this subject too Matt, and very well stated. I believe understanding the tradition is a good starting point to developing your own style without following 'rules' slavishly.

  4. #24
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    Thank you Steve, and Matt two truly insightful posts.

    I agree wholeheartedly, Wear it the way you are comfortable wearing it, and you will look good in it!
    ~Kyle

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
    ... those who ... can identify a kilt 2 times out of 3 without having to look in the back of the book...


    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome View Post
    ... wearing this: a traditional 8 yard kilt in his clan tartan, no shirt, an open black leather biker's vest, about a dozen heavy gold chains on his neck (ala Mr. T), a horned viking helmet, and on his feet -- not kilt hose and ghillies, no not even boots -- large green furry dinosaur feet bedroom slippers. It honestly looked like he opened his closet that morning and asked himself what was the most ridiculous combination of clothing he could possibly wear...


    Two of the best laughs of the day.

    Cheers!

  6. #26
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    The term "kilt cop" or "kilt police" is bandied around so much...and by people who should know better.

    At bottom it is derisive and divisive...no different from the political invective poisoning the well nowadays.

    There are no kilt police because no such thing exists. There is no legal authority, there is no one enforcement power, there is nothing to give credence to this kind of name calling.

    What there is is opinion. Some people's opinions seem to offend other people...and vice versa. If you don't want to hear opinions that differ from your own, stay home.

    This seems particularly apropos for this discussion:

    "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)
    Last edited by DWFII; 7th September 11 at 08:00 AM.
    DWFII--Traditionalist and Auld Crabbit
    In the Highlands of Central Oregon

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chas View Post
    Jordan - of course, you can keep your badge.

    Just pin it somewhere under your kilt, where it will be nice and handy!

    But no pictures!

    Regards

    Chas
    On a more serious note I do agree with Our Almighty leaders point, unless someone had their kilt on backwards or the basting stitches left in I try to avoid criticising anyone's sense of style.


    Quote Originally Posted by Santa Kona View Post
    Jordan that is very funny do you really have a badge or just the art work? My brother has been a Policeman for 39 years and collect all types of badges. I would love to get him one if they are available.

    Unfortunately it is just the image, I think I pinched off here some time ago
    The hielan' man he wears the kilt, even when it's snowin';
    He kens na where the wind comes frae,
    But he kens fine where its goin'.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWFII View Post
    The term "kilt cop" or "kilt police" is bandied around so much...and by people who should know better.

    At bottom it is derisive and divisive...no different from the political invective poisoning the well nowadays.

    There are no kilt police because no such thing exists. There is no legal authority, there is no one enforcement power, there is nothing to give credence to this kind of name calling.

    What there is is opinion. Some people's opinions seem to offend other people...and vice versa. If you don't want to hear opinions that differ from your own, stay home.
    I see and generally agree with these points, but....
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and the right to share that opinion, valuable or otherwise.
    Refering to someone as the "Kilt Police" is a matter of whether said opinions are expressed as friendly advice, or a didactic instruction.
    There's a difference between someone trying to help by saying something like; "Excuse me, but in my experience that's worn like this" and someone just blurting out; "That's wrong, it's done this way"!
    Order of the Dandelion, The Houston Area Kilt Society, Bald Rabble in Kilts, Kilted Texas Rabble Rousers, The Flatcap Confederation, Kilted Playtron Group.
    "If you’re going to talk the talk, you’ve got to walk the walk"

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome View Post
    You know, there is a way you can tell someone that the basting stitches ought to be removed before wearing the kilt out like that which would come across as friendly advice, rather than rude snobbery. Really, was anyone doing that gent any favors by allowing him to walk around the Games all day like that and NOT telling him?

    Someone said a few posts up that it is important to realize the difference between fact and opinion. That is very true. I think it is also important to realize that not everyone who gives their opinion or advice is being the "Kilt Police."

    I have a quote which I often repeat from Stuart Ruaidri Erskine that says "The Highland dress is essentially a 'free' dress -- that is to say, a man's taste and circumstances must alone be permitted to decide when and where and how he should wear it... I presume to dictate to no man what he shall eat or drink or wherewithal he shall be clothed."

    That is all basically true, and I repeat it so often because one trend in Highland dress that I think needs combating is this tendency some have to make the whole thing into a uniform. Unless you are a member of some uniformed organization (the military, or a pipe band, etc) which requires you to wear the kilt in a certain way, there truly are no RULES that dictate how you should wear the kilt.

    But there is another trend that I think also needs combating that is the polar opposite. This is the idea that anything goes, one way of wearing the kilt is just as appropriate as another, and how dare anyone tell me any different.

    It will be helpful for me to give an example of each of these tendencies. Once I was sternly corrected by a man who had spent some time in the British military. It seems the cuffs on my hose were turned over an inch too short, or too long (can't recall now). I was told in no uncertain terms that I was wearing them wrong. I had to politely remind the gentleman that I was not serving in the military and not wearing a uniform and so not subject to his uniform regulations.

    On the other end of the spectrum, I once saw a man representing his clan in the parade of clans at the Grandfather Mountain Highland Games wearing this: a traditional 8 yard kilt in his clan tartan, no shirt, an open black leather biker's vest, about a dozen heavy gold chains on his neck (ala Mr. T), a horned viking helmet, and on his feet -- not kilt hose and ghillies, no not even boots -- large green furry dinosaur feet bedroom slippers. It honestly looked like he opened his closet that morning and asked himself what was the most ridiculous combination of clothing he could possibly wear. And this was how he chose to represent his clan on parade.

    I think common sense lies somewhere between these two extremes. I think men of reasonable minds and good will can appreciate that while there many not be uniform rules for civilian kilt wearing, there are still "rules" of good fashion and taste, and that these may vary from region to region, circumstance to circumstance, and social group to social group. But it is always helpful to be aware of them, and when we deviate from them, we do so with a reason and purpose in mind.

    Further, we must also appreciate the fact that the kilt is a unique and special garment that has many years of history and tradition behind it, and that tradition should be respected, if not always followed.

    Likewise it is important to remember that the tradition of kilt wearing is still a living tradition, and so subject to change and adaptation.

    A little common sense can go a long way.

    Indeed it can. As to correcting someone, I think we can correct obvious missteps due to ignorance without becoming "kilt police". At the VA Highland Games last weekend, I happened to be behind an elderly gentleman in a Black Watch kilt, and his lady in a matching shawl. From their wide eyed appearance I thought they were perhaps newcomers to this world of kilts. I became sure of it when I noticed he had his pleats in front. I went to him, and after excusing myself for interrupting, said quietly, "The pleats are normally worn in back." He asked if I was sure, it seemed backwards to him. I told him not to take my word for it, but to look around. A little bit later, I saw him, and his pleats were in back. he flashed me a thumbs up, and a grin. That is, I think, how to handle an obvious error. Discreetly, politely, and move on. Let the person make their own decision and correction in their own time.
    Geoff Withnell

    "My comrades, they did never yield, for courage knows no bounds."
    No longer subject to reveille US Marine.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome View Post
    On the other end of the spectrum, I once saw a man representing his clan in the parade of clans at the Grandfather Mountain Highland Games wearing this: a traditional 8 yard kilt in his clan tartan, no shirt, an open black leather biker's vest, about a dozen heavy gold chains on his neck (ala Mr. T), a horned viking helmet, and on his feet -- not kilt hose and ghillies, no not even boots -- large green furry dinosaur feet bedroom slippers. It honestly looked like he opened his closet that morning and asked himself what was the most ridiculous combination of clothing he could possibly wear. And this was how he chose to represent his clan on parade.
    Yes, but were the green dinosaur slippers properly coordinated with the colors of the tartan.
    We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance. - Japanese Proverb

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