Knights Templar Tartans

[MACKAY]

Ran across this today while doing some research at work (a.k.a. browsing the web) and thought I would post a link. I particularly like the dress tartan.

http://www.ordotempli.org/official_k...lar_tartan.htm

I have always had a fascination with the Knights Templar and it was interesting to see that they still exist as an association.

Brian

[Doc Hudson]

This is not the Knights Templar with which I am slightly familiar. There is a degree of York Rite Masonry known as Kinghts Templar.

Masonic Templars do not claim direct relation to the Templars of old. However when the Knights Templar re-emereged in the early 1700's, the Order was a part of Freemasonry.

Membership in the Order of Knights Templar is limited to Christians who are hold higher level degrees in York Rite Masonry.

I can not, and will not speculate as to which body are the literal successors of the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon. All I can say is that both bodies have similar philanthropic goals, and both promote Christianity.

[Andrew Breecher]

A great book about the Knights Templar (and a wonderfully paranoid plot) is Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum. Eco is a Medieval historian, and it shows.

Andrew.

[Archangel]

This is not the Knights Templar with which I am slightly familiar. There is a degree of York Rite Masonry known as Kinghts Templar.

Masonic Templars do not claim direct relation to the Templars of old. However when the Knights Templar re-emereged in the early 1700's, the Order was a part of Freemasonry.

Membership in the Order of Knights Templar is limited to Christians who are hold higher level degrees in York Rite Masonry.

I can not, and will not speculate as to which body are the literal successors of the Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon. All I can say is that both bodies have similar philanthropic goals, and both promote Christianity.

Promote Christianity, say what? They have nothing real to do with Christ, and Him crucified. Do not be confused by Romantic Fables, no matter how cool the concept and movies are? (This is all I am going to say on this subject out of respect, and the rules.)

Of course, my statement has nothing to do with the choice of wearing a kilt of this tartan. I'd have no problem with that.

[Doc Hudson]

Promote Christianity, say what? They have nothing real to do with Christ, and Him crucified. Do not be confused by Romantic Fables, no matter how cool the concept and movies are? (This is all I am going to say on this subject out of respect, and the rules.)

Of course, my statement has nothing to do with the choice of wearing a kilt of this tartan. I'd have no problem with that.

And you say I'm argumentative!

Taken directly from the opening page of the Website for The Grand Encampment of the Knights Templar of the United States of America http://www.knightstemplar.org/ ;

The Grand Encampment of Knights Templar of the United States of America is the national governing body of the Knights Templar, a Christian-oriented fraternal organization and an integral part of the Masonic Fraternity

And taken from the Ordo Supremus Militaris Temloi Hierosolymitani site listed by Brian:
"A non-governmental organization non-profit, voluntary Christian group organized on a local, national and international level"

Now if you are some sort of Anti-Mason, that is your problem, not mine.

[Mike1]

This is all I am going to say on this subject...

Well that is certainly good news.

...out of respect...

Respect is it then? Had you chosen to demonstrate respect, your ill-informed comments would have been kept to yourself.

...and the rules.

A bit of that respect you mention would make the rules unnecessary.

[Colin]

Here's a bit more history (pre-USA) about the knights Templar. Some good info about the Scottish contribution too. http://www.templarhistory.com/who.html

Everyone has a right to their opinion, I don't think Archangel was trying to insult those of you that are Masons. I know very little about this subject matter, but am interested in learning a bit about it in a civilised discussion.

Let's not turn this into the usual mud slinging argumentative crap that threads that become in the past. Please and Thank You.

Anyone have any knowledge to share? Based on what I have read on the above site (I know don't believe everything on the internet) weren't the Knights Templar basically destroyed in the 1300's?

[Doc Hudson]

In 1307, Philip the Fair coerced the Avignon Pope to proscribe the Templars and order their arrest by secular authorities.

Much has been made of the "Confessions" made by Grand Master Jacques De Molay, and other captive Templar Knights. I submit that if tortured with a red hot poker up their bum, any man would confess to any crime or heresy to stop the torture.

Philip the Fair was deep in debt to the Templars, who were the first international bankers, and the Templars were exceedingly wealthy, in lands, and ready cash. Philip siezed all Templar holdings, but failed to grab the gold. English and Scottish authorities were less ready to oppress the Templars and siezed Templar holdings with less enthusiasm. In fact, many, or perhaps most Templar holdings in England and Scotland were transfered to the Knights of the Hospital of St. John rather than to the Crown.

The Templars did not re-emerge into public view until the early 1700's when they emerged as a part of Freemasonry. And apparently other bodies also claim the Templar name and Templar descent.

The legendary riches of the Templars have given rise to many tales over the centuries, including the recent movie "National Treasure."

As an aside, the earliest records of Freemasonry from a Scottish lodge and date from the late 1300's. And Masons sponsor a boys club named for Grand Master Jacques De Molay called the Order of De Molay.

[Mike1]

Hi Colin. The problem with trying to speak definitively about the Knights Templar is that there are currently some 125-plus groups currently claiming to be the "real" Knights Templar.

You are correct, in 1314 Jacques deMolay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar, was put to death which effectively brought a public end to the order. There doubtless were adherents that survived the round-up and massacre, but where they went and what happened from there is relatively unknown. One common myth is that they "saved the day" when The Bruce defeated Edward II at Bannockburn. Note that I did say "myth". ;)

I have several friends that are members of the Knights Templar of Scotland and I also know members of the York Rite Commandery that have received the Knights Templar Degree of that Order.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, I don't think Archangel was trying to insult those of you that are Masons.

I respect everyone's right to hold an opinion. I do not respect the use of the bait-n-switch tactic that Archangel chose to use. No different than me asking if someone is still beating their spouse and then refusing to say more "out of respect" and "because of the rules".

[Colin]

Hi Colin. The problem with trying to speak definitively about the Knights Templar is that there are currently some 125-plus groups currently claiming to be the "real" Knights Templar.

You are correct, in 1314 Jacques deMolay, the last Grand Master of the Knights Templar, was put to death which effectively brought a public end to the order. There doubtless were adherents that survived the round-up and massacre, but where they went and what happened from there is relatively unknown. One common myth is that they "saved the day" when The Bruce defeated Edward II at Bannockburn. Note that I did say "myth". ;)

I have several friends that are members of the Knights Templar of Scotland and I also know members of the York Rite Commandery that have received the Knights Templar Degree of that Order.

Interesting information. Thanks Mike and Doc. Funny how the Knights have made such a come back in the entertainment media recently (Da Vinci's Code, National Treasure, Kingdom of Heaven, etc). Nice to hear some of the real history.