Machine manufacture? - X Marks the Scot

arnoldus · #1 07-30-2010, 05:34 PM

Hi, as I stated in my introduction thread I'm a business student and I've had a couple of years of engineering as well before I changed major. I've been reading up on some threads about kilt pricing and it has aroused my interest.

I've seen the threads detailing the several costs of manufacture. I was surprised to see that even cheap kilts are handsewn. But I fail to understand why it's a manual job? The mills don't weave fabric manually, so why should the kilts be made that way? I haven't bought Art of Kiltmaking yet, and I don't know much about the clothes manufacture in general but I think I understand the discrete operations involved.
I've learned in some threads that a good fit and good pleats are all about math. Shouldn't it be possible to generate a made-to-measure pattern from a computer when getting peoples 3 measurements? Could that not be fed into an automatic sewing machine?

I must admit that I don't know much about clothesmaking, but I would be surprised if there aren't any (semi-)automatic ways of doing it, at least the simpler, casual versions in PV? Perhaps not entirely but even a couple of hours saved add up quickly. What info is there on this?

Kaw-Liga · #2 07-30-2010, 06:01 PM

I think such a machine would be a custom design, with VERY limited sales potential.

IF XYZ Kilts paid for the design, fabrication, installation, and adjustments of such a machine, how many kilts would it have to make to recover initial costs?? How many years would be required to sell these kilts??

My opinion is that kilt making is not practical for high productivity automation; no matter how fast and economical the production cost becomes.

There is a limited number of kilts that will be bought at ANY price.

e.g. ABSURD low price LIMIT = Cost of Tartan Material + $1 (for using your machine) + $10 shipping.

*Editing* Just noticed that you are in Belgium. Shipping to US market would be higher and there could/would be Customs Duties.

Yes we would buy more kilts. But, don't think we would buy enough for you and your machine to make a profit.

Kaw-Liga

My advice is free, and possibly overpriced.

RockyR · #3 07-30-2010, 06:02 PM

If you can design a computer program or machine to make a whole kilt soup to nuts, sign me up for two!

Tartan Tess · #4 07-30-2010, 06:35 PM

I would love to be able to type in a persons measurements and sett size etc, and be able to have a instant answer.....

Chas · #5 07-31-2010, 03:36 AM

Some things just have to be done by hand. It matters not how many robots build your car, it still takes a human being to drive it off the assembly line and park it in the lot.

Look at the inside of your kilt. The liner is hand sewn, for the simple reason that if it were machine sewn the stitching would show - on the aprons and on the pleats.

The kilt that we wear is little changed in the last 150 years. If there had been a way to automate the process, don't you think that a kilt maker would have found it?

Automation and mass-production generally mean consistency and lower price. Unless one is wearing it as an everyday uniform, how many kilts (that are exactly the same) would we have to buy to make it viable for a manufacturer. I would argue that the number would be so high that it would be non-viable for the purchaser.

As I say - some things just have to be done by hand - and we should be glad that they are!

Regards

Chas

arnoldus · #6 07-31-2010, 04:46 AM

I'm going to take my time learning about the construction techniques so that I can make informed guesses. I agree that manual work is often a sign of a master craftsmanship.

It's fallacious to believe that something good would have been invented by now if it were possible. I've seen other niche industries that thought the same until outsiders made breakthroughs. Nothing is set in stone.

I'm not talking about industrial machinery spitting out items. Perhaps some things can be further automated and save additional time? Ie, sewing machines are used instead of 100% hand sewing for a reason, aren't they?

Equally, automating often means changing or simplifying the process. Ie, X-kilts would seem a good candidate for automatic production.

Kaw-Liga · #7 07-31-2010, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tartan Tess

I would love to be able to type in a persons measurements and sett size etc, and be able to have a instant answer.....

Tess,

You make a good point.

I think you are just wanting size calculations, and still plan on hand crafting the kilt.

This would be a practical calculation using your computer to determine number of pleats and total length of fabric required. Believe that a common spread sheet program could be used with the formulas needed entered into cells.

Kaw-Liga

Kaw-Liga

artificer · #8 07-31-2010, 06:36 AM

I think the greatest issue with true machine production is the material itself. Master kiltmakers are true artists when it comes to just HOW they pleat a tartan.

That kind of judgment ISN'T binary, while some tartans can be broken down to pure maths, others require a "show the red stripe/ white/ gold" call to be made. Barb T has some very informative posts describing HOW the actual pleat depth can vary depending on just which part of the tartan you're pleating to.

It would be a VERY expensive machine indeed.

IF nobody cared about how the tartan was pleated, IF nobody cared about inside stitching I think it could be done.

Otherwise, you've got a MOUNTAIN of programming to do.

**CDNSushi** · #9 07-31-2010, 07:09 AM

There is a line between that which is POSSIBLE and that which is FEASIBLE. I imagine that it might be possible to create a machine that will produce a kilt for you. Why not? Japan now has a robot that will make ramen for you... Which is pretty impressive. I would've never imagined that a machine could make ramen like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0GKIQdpscg

So yes. I think such a machine could certainly be made. However, is it feasible? When you consider the cost of R&D, engineering, parts & labour, and everything else, you could be facing something rather scary. The real question then is WHY? As a proof of concept? To say that it CAN be done? If so, then good luck -- I would be curious to see what such a project would look like. If it would be for commercial venture, I'd say that it's not feasible. There's a reason why even today, mass-produced garments are often produced by hand and not by machine... Here's what a blue jeans making operation looks like. Notice that there is some automation, but humans still have many, many roles to play in the process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MTyEwUJPBA

sydnie7 · #10 07-31-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tartan Tess

I would love to be able to type in a persons measurements and sett size etc, and be able to have a instant answer.....

One of our forum members did produce an XKilt calculator -- actually an Excel spreadsheet. IIRC it was a European member who did the original in metrics but also produced an "inches" version which I have on file. The search function might serve up the original thread in which it appeared but I've got other things to do this a.m. than look for it!

Taking that concept to TAoK level might or might not be possible. Adding the sett size factor would be the first challenge, probably not the only one!