The kilt cannot be universally accepted

[Tom Fiddles]

"Again I would not wear the kilt in many Muslim countries where it may look insulting to their beliefs or by others interpreting it as cross-dressing."


OK. So, I live on Philadelphia, and I ride the subway and the regional rail lines to work every day.

Last year on St. Andrew's Day I am wearing my kilt, vest, and Argyle Jacket. On the subway.

At one subway station a Muslim man gets on the train, wearing his long robe that is in a plaid pattern. He looks at me. I look at him.

And I say, "Nice tartan there lad."

He laughs. I laugh. All the people around us on the train start laughing! It was priceless.

[ThistleDown]

I would have to say No, not a Highland Regiment. Those are Dragoon Pistols, and P1751 Grenadier Hangers, plus the ubiquitous bayonet for the Land Musket. But wow what a display!

Thanks, Luke. I'll pass that on to the curator. A large case, now used for other purposes but marked for the 91st, is the one in which these pistols were shipped north in 1848 (or 1858). Probably someone assumed that the case was original to its contents. It's a big house The rest of the room is just as fascinating as this wall, but there are no other claims for Highland regiments so not for discussion on XMarks. Interesting that the Royal Dragoons were commanded by a Sir Clark Kennedy at Waterloo, but Sir Clark was a member of the Moray Kennedys and not the Culzean.

[Bluethunder90]

Why do we bother? Frankly, for those outwith Scotland, I have no idea!


I have said it before here and will say it again. I think anyone wearing the kilt out of its natural surroundings is asking for trouble, snide comments, frowns et al from all directions when they wear the tartan kilt and the Utilikilt style of kilt is only making the matter worse in some people's eyes and minds. Wearing the tartan kilt poorly cannot help either. And yes, there are parts of Scotland still, where the tartan kilt-------and those wearing it----- are regarded with suspicion. I take my hat off to all who do wear the kilt outwith its natural surroundings who may even get a kick out of doing so. But for certain sure, I am not prepared to make that sort of higher profile of myself. Besides I don't have to, I very rarely wear the kilt outwith the Highlands.

It has been a year or more since I commented in these forums, largely because my plans of purchasing a kilt came to naught (as a great many of my plans seem to do), but when I first joined these forums, I put forth the question of the reception of the kilted community to a black man, with no known Scottish heritage, wearing a kilt, and the response I got from these forums was nothing but positive.

Having said that, as a black man living in Hawaii, I would definitely be wearing the kilt out of it's natural surroundings, but I would do so because for reasons I really can't explain, I have a strong interest in the Scottish culture, to include a love of bagpipes (I swear I'm not just making that up), because the garment looks comfortable, and most importantly because I have always marched to the beat of my drummer, and I tend to do what interest me and makes me happy, despite whatever negative thing anyone would have to say about it.
The one thing I will take care to do when I do purchase and wear a kilt, is to research what I am buying, and how to wear it properly so as to not offend anyone of Scottish heritage by wearing a Tartan that I have no right to wear, or by wearing the kilt incorrectly. Those of Scottish heritage, whose heritage I would be appropriating, are the people I would be concerned with offending, anyone else with an ignorant opinion, I really couldn't care less.

[Pleater]

During my visit to the Folk festival in Sidmouth earlier this month there were the Exeter City pipes and drums around in their band uniforms, someone which are rather poorly fitting, a couple of men wore kilts for social dancing and looked very smart, but there were also at least three kilts being worn as costume for morris dancing.
The band probably got most notice because of the volume of their playing, the social dancers were noticed in the streets, but the kilted morris dancers were totally unremarkable amongst the rest. They dance Border morris and their tradition is rather more disreputable than the other types. They wear pheasant feathers in their hats, and the females tend to be of the satin corset and torn fishnet tights sort. The other types of morris tend to resemble cricketers, or Victorian rugby teams.

Whilst the wearing of kilts by Border morris men is unlikely to gain universal acceptance anytime soon, the greater comfort of those wearing them was something noticed by those expending great amounts of energy in the hot sun.

Anne the Pleater

[Michael A]

Hello All

This is my first post apart from my newbie introduction.

I received my first utility kilt yesterday and basically haven't taken it off, including doing anaesthetic clinics in a business shirt and tie, but wearing military leather flying boots with the kilt. I have some distant Scottish ancestry, with which I have not until recently identified. I ordered my tartan (Ferguson) kilt last week but I wanted to get used to it first, hence the "tactical" kilt. Needless to say, it's marvellous to wear.

I will say though, that even though utility kilts don't need a sporran due to their cargo pockets, wearing either a plain day wear sporran or one of those ammunition/admin pouches as a sporran screams "KILT!" to any bypassers who might otherwise have doubts as to its identity. In my limited exposure, I have had laughs from people at work, which is fun really, but from strangers they have either not noticed, asked if I am Scottish, or complimented me on it. The only one at work I might be worried about is the recently arrived registrar from Aberdeen, but if he settles here in Australia, his kids will have Australian accents and attitudes and they and theirs will be like me: Australians with some Scottish heritage and genes. There really isn't much he can do about that to be honest. And I don't think he'd mind - his wife is French for one thing.

There is an American from California of Filipino heritage at work who has expressed interest in getting a utility kilt. I say the more the merrier! I wouldn't be concerned about "appropriation" - that whole idea is a pernicious and backward concept whose logical conclusion would be apartheid! We borrow all kinds of aspects of others' culture all the time and always have. I don't see European people getting their knickers in a knot about non-European people wearing suits, even though they have European origins. It's not "appropriation", it's called living in the modern world; it's civilisation. If a black man in Hawaii wants to wear a kilt, if he is comfortable in that, then that is just another contribution of Scotland to the modern world on top of the enlightenment and all that!

I hope this is not too controversial for a first post. I do agree however, that it would be foolhardy to wear a kilt in some poor areas, but it might be just as hazardous to go there alone anyway in some cases.

[The Q]

"Again I would not wear the kilt in many Muslim countries where it may look insulting to their beliefs or by others interpreting it as cross-dressing."


OK. So, I live on Philadelphia, and I ride the subway and the regional rail lines to work every day.

Last year on St. Andrew's Day I am wearing my kilt, vest, and Argyle Jacket. On the subway.

At one subway station a Muslim man gets on the train, wearing his long robe that is in a plaid pattern. He looks at me. I look at him.

And I say, "Nice tartan there lad."

He laughs. I laugh. All the people around us on the train start laughing! It was priceless.

How do you know he was Muslim? Many of the Africans and some Arabs are Christian and still wear the long robe, In fact it is more likely to be a Christian or possibly any other religion than Muslim as they almost always wear an all white thobe, if not in western dress.

Even so, having lived in Saudi I can assure you there is a huge difference between a western educated Muslim and one from a country where all news and films are censored and their education system spends 50% of their time reading the Koran.

If a man and wife does not wear full Arab dress or western dress, it is quite possible they would be lucky to make it to prison. The ill educated and informed majority will NOT understand the kilt.
The only exceptions to this might possibly be Jordan and some military parts of Pakistan where Scottish regiments were stationed and they still play the bagpipes.

Note, to say I worked for an British born and educated Muslim in Saudi, He'd been there for some years, when he brought his western educated Wife out there, within months She and He were heading back to the UK. She couldn't stand the restrictions out there.

As for wearing a kilt in a rough area, I know of no country in the world where I would do that, especially Scotland with my English Accent.

[Jimmy]

How do you know he was Muslim? Many of the Africans and some Arabs are Christian and still wear the long robe, In fact it is more likely to be a Christian or possibly any other religion than Muslim as they almost always wear an all white thobe, if not in western dress.

Even so, having lived in Saudi I can assure you there is a huge difference between a western educated Muslim and one from a country where all news and films are censored and their education system spends 50% of their time reading the Koran.

If a man and wife does not wear full Arab dress or western dress, it is quite possible they would be lucky to make it to prison. The ill educated and informed majority will NOT understand the kilt.
The only exceptions to this might possibly be Jordan and some military parts of Pakistan where Scottish regiments were stationed and they still play the bagpipes.

Note, to say I worked for an British born and educated Muslim in Saudi, He'd been there for some years, when he brought his western educated Wife out there, within months She and He were heading back to the UK. She couldn't stand the restrictions out there.

As for wearing a kilt in a rough area, I know of no country in the world where I would do that, especially Scotland with my English Accent.

Thanks for your post, it more aptly demonstrates my thoughts on the why the kilt is and cannot be a universal and if I may use the word in its truest sense, catholic mode of dress. I suppose we kiltwearers would be delighted if the kilt was shared by every country and culture but that is something that is never going to happen. We can be heralds and evangelists for our favourite casual or formal dress and that is what we should all continue to do in a very proactive manner.
We should also consider the limitations for a man to wear the kilt. The kilt is just not practical for everyday wear and for everyday tasks that we encounter. I am a regular kilt wearer and over last weekend I was kilted for the highland games weekend in Rothesay, Isle of Bute. I am like most men and at times a couch potato, so I love to slouch backwards on the sofa and relax, being kilted does not provide that luxury whether you are commando or not, therefore its good to get back into denims or longs.

[robert_law]

I think in areas where there is 'poverty', walking around in a £200 kilt might seem rude if you are surrounded by tracksuited locals. I generally weigh up the place and occasion before kilting up. A function like a ball / ceilidh, family event, wedding etc is more likely for me than just strapping one on and walking about. Yeah not everyone is going to like the kilt, but the thing is not to worry about everyone's opinion

I live in a area where there is poverty in a council estate in Dundee and have never had a problem with the kilt as well as formal kilts I have got casual kilts
and explain to people who ask me why I have so many kilts that they are casual kilts available on Ebay for £24 so you don’t need to be rich or a snob
to wear the kilt !

[Bluethunder90]

"appropriation" - that whole idea is a pernicious and backward concept

I agree completely with your assessment of appropriation, however, it was just my attempt to convey the message that I realize that I am not of Scottish heritage and as such, do not want to, in any way, offend someone else's heritage.

[Grae]

RE:Pleater' comment post34

I did not know about border morris, but now you mention it I recall seeing these wild morris dancers with pheasant feathers in top hat etc at Hastings and there were black kilts worn which I assumed meant that they were Morris dancers from Cornwall.