the Short Modern Kilt

[OC Richard]

I continue to be dismayed how men are getting their kilts made shorter and shorter.

The "standard length" for hire kilts etc for men of average height was/is 24".

I don't feel right in a kilt any shorter than 25", I prefer 25.5. I'm a tad over 6'3".

But in, what, the last 20 years or so kiltwearers (AFAIK especially in the USA) have kept pushing their kilts lower and lower on their hips, further and further below their natural waist, and demanding shorter and shorter kilts from the makers.

I was gobsmacked to see this just now on Ebay, a whole set of band kilts, with waist sizes suggesting adult male kilts, all with lengths of 22 inches or 21 inches.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOTLAND-FO...%7C6000%7C7000

Traditionally those lengths would be indicative of men well under average height. So either there was a Pipe Band consisting of short large men, or a Pipe Band consisting of average-height men who wanted their kilts to fit down around their hips.

BTW I see that they did have one kilt with a 25" length, that would be for me! So they had one gent who was either very tall or liked high kilts.

[davidlpope]

Richard,

My uneducated opinion is that once pipe bands were divorced from military or law enforcement contexts, the attention to detail for uniforms went out the window. Even in my own band experience it's clear who served in the military and who didn't, based on their appearance in the band uniform. Add to that the fact that most bands don't custom order kilts for each new bandsman and you get what you've got...

David

[revdpatience]

My eight-yard tartan kilt is 27" long, as I stand about 6'6" tall -- and even at that the bottom edge rests exactly at the middle of my kneecap.

I purchased a Utilikilt for my brother (who's taller than me, but only from the waist up) when I was in Seattle earlier this year, and when I tried one on their "long" size of 24" hit me in the same place on my knee even though the waist fit down around my hips like a pair of jeans. I get the attraction, but to my mind they are two completely different garments.

My tailored business suits do not fit like my jeans, nor should they. My tailored kilt doesn't fit like my business suits, nor should it.

I continue to be dismayed how men are getting their kilts made shorter and shorter.

The "standard length" for hire kilts etc for men of average height was/is 24".

I don't feel right in a kilt any shorter than 25", I prefer 25.5. I'm a tad over 6'3".

[KnittedReenactor]

I think you gentlemen are correct. It does seem they are actively trying to emulate the low rise of jeans, because that is what most people are familiar with. Even in a business environment, such as the local coffee shop, supermarket, or cell phone store, jeans seem to now be the trousers de jure.
Heck even the surplus store modern army combat trousers I have as grubby work clothes sit really low. I often have to hike them up because they just don't come up enough to actually sit on my hip bones. Whereas my 70 year old wool army winter combat trousers, and my proper kilts, do. Those old wool trousers also have separate elastic braces which work really nicely too

[pofloyd1]

I'm 5'6" and a 24" Kilt worn above my bellybutton still hangs below my knees. My opinion that looks odd but with a 21" length still worn above the bellybutton hits a little above mid-knee. Maybe more short people are wearing kilts and don't want to have to 3" hem their kilts. Plus I am not willing to ruin a nice custom wool kilt while hiking, canoeing and fishing or working around the yard in 85F weather. Thanks to this forum's knowledge and Barb's book I have managed to shorten 8 inexpensive kilts for myself my son's and my wife and friends all between 4'11" and 5'6"with no hem.

[OC Richard]

Good point, I don't have your perspective.

I've been 6'4" most of my life and have shrunk a bit over the last decade or so, and wearing a 24" kilt drives me crazy, it's just too short, and there's no way to make it look right.

Kilt hire and new kilt sales for many years has carried 24" kilts as their standard. I had assumed that they did that because 24" would be alright for all but the narrow ends of the bell-shaped curve.

Remember that in the army in the old days kilts were around 27" for everybody!

What I see all day at every Highland Games is:

1) men wearing kilts too low, and they come too low at the bottom, meaning that the kilts were made the correct length for them.

2) men wearing kilts too low, but they come to a good place at the bottom, meaning that the kilts were made too short for them.

[jthk]

I purchased a Utilikilt for my brother (who's taller than me, but only from the waist up) when I was in Seattle earlier this year, and when I tried one on their "long" size of 24" hit me in the same place on my knee even though the waist fit down around my hips like a pair of jeans. I get the attraction, but to my mind they are two completely different garments

Exactly! A Utilikilt is *designed* to sit at "jeans" waist whereas a traditional kilt is designed to sit higher. I wear my traditional kilts higher and my Utilikilts lower, because that's what they're configured to do.

[OC Richard]

Just to give perspective on kilt length, for the first 20 to 30 years of kiltwearing (starting in 1975) and playing in Pipe Bands with men of a range of heights I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of a kilt made shorter than 23".

In bands the shortest guys wore 23" most guys 24" and the tallest guys 25" and that was it.

It's that reason that I stand amazed to see kilts offered all the time now with 22" and 21" lengths.

In the old days those would be youths' kilts.

Nowadays most men wear their kilts lower than in the past and are wanting their kilts made shorter than they ever have been made for adults, as far as I know.

Even in that bastion of tradition, the Army, I'm seeing kilts made shorter than they used to be.

Since Army kilts used to be quite high, usually well above the navel, the shorter modern Army kilts fit about the same that traditional civilian kilts did. I think it's safe to guess that modern Army kilts are often 2" shorter than old Army kilts, and modern civilian kilts are often 2" shorter than old civilian kilts.

[morrison]

I continue to be dismayed how men are getting their kilts made shorter and shorter.
... ... ...
I was gobsmacked to see this just now on Ebay,
hey
a whole set of band kilts,

with waist sizes suggesting adult male kilts, all with lengths of 22 inches or 21 inches.
... ... ...
BTW I see that they did have one kilt with a 25" length, that would be for me! So they had one gent who was either very tall or liked high kilts.

I’m wondering if the mfgr of those kilts produced them kilts in improperly designated length and was then subsequently rejected by buyer.
I like the shorter length. However, 21” seems a bit high above knee if worn at typical waist height. But if worn at just above hip bone they might be closer to top of knee. Good for me

[tpa]

I'm 5'7" but with a longish body and quite short legs and 24" kilts are a lot too long for me. There are other issues at stake these days too, such as what rise is there and is it flared. I find most modern kilts do not have a flared rise and so if I do mine tight enough at the waist not to drop then they are not very comfortable to sit or breath in, which is probably one good reason for many to wear them lower. Of course if they do that with a 24" kilt it is going to hang below the knee on many people, which is what you see in many pictures, even allowing for camera angle.

Body shape also comes into it. If I'm going to be comfortable then I wear mine so they are supported naturally by my hips. Having a fairly straight body, if I try to fasten them any higher, breathing becomes an issue, never mind sitting. Unfortunately one hip seems to be fractionally lower than the other and the slope is highest at the front. I must have shrunk as well as had a body shape change since my younger days as I've even had to, very regretfully, have my 60+yo teenage kilt hemmed recently. (I'll get it shortened properly one day when I feel I can afford it.)

I guess the moral of the story is that everyone is different and all should get their kilts tailor made by someone like Steve who seems to take all aspects into account. but be prepared for changes as you age.