Boy Scout kilts

[Alan H]

The Boy Scout manual for the UK lists alternative uniform items for UK scouts. For example, in Northern Ireland, the saffron kilt is an officialy recognized alternative to trousers.

http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/you...o/scoutsco.htm

and

http://histclo.hispeed.com/youth/you...ir/scoutir.htm

...wherein you will find this bit of text:

***Some Irish Boy Scouts wear dark green or yellow saffron kilts for special outings like camping or in dancing comprtitions and of course Jamborees. ****

Finally, let's get to the meat of it.

http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/bbs/bbsbgs.htm

you will find this section.....

*********

11. KILTS.
11.1 Other than Ladies, Pre-Juniors, and Juniors (including Wolf Cubs) the following may wear the kilt with a plain leather sporran;
(a) Any Scout Officer holding any rank in the movement in Scotland, or Ireland.
(b) Any Scout Officer of Scottish or Irish descent (at least one Grand Parent of Scottish, or Irish Blood).
(c) Members of any Troop/Group in Scotland or Ireland, provided all wear the Kilt.
(d) Members of any Troop/Group where all the members are of Scottish or Irish descent (at least one Grand Parent of Scottish, or Irish Blood) and provided all wear the Kilt.
11.2 Those entitled to wear the Kilt may also wear, as an alternative headgear, a Khaki Bonnet. Similarly Rover Scouts may wear a navy blue balmoral.

***********

I'm sure that James and others could tell us about Boy Scout groups who have worn the kilt, and probably have memories of doing so themselves, when they were lads.

[Sherry]

We have a local Venture crew that wears kilts. This is a link to their gallery:
http://crew1298.org/modules.php?name=gallery

Sherry

[kenNYG]

Thanks to everyone I now have lots of good information. Thank you Ham and Alan for your information. I have had some resisdence from my peers about letting my crew wear a kilt but now I can tell them that the high and almighty Lord Baden-Powle him self had a kilt. The American Boy Scout Museum is about 45 minutes from my home and I will have to go back and look alot closer at the displays.

I like the web page from Texas about the kilted crew. I'll have to start our own web page.

The other adults I belive are 1) insecure or 2) jelious..

As a scout I earnd the rank of Eagle Scout, all my Religous award. As an adult I have been awareded by the Catholic Bishop of Rockford the Catacist of the year, the scouters Silver Acorn, District award of Merit, a adult leader for the Girl Scouts and others. Been a scoccer couch for T ball, 14 season of soccer coach ( some season undefeated), and am on my nineth year of teach Relgious Ed. for 2nd graders, and so on, and yes I am braging. My point is I like the way I grew up and I am trying to help the youth here have fun too. If they want to be kilted it's my job to full fill that dream. That is what adults are here for. And yes we as adults can have fun with them too.

Being kilted is fun, 1) I like when the boys get called over by the other boys wanting to know were they can buy a kilt. 2) I like when the boys tell me that I'm cool and want to join our crew becouse we are one of kind.

Most of all I like the attention I get at the hardware store, grocery store,
.and just walking out and about with the dog or the wife, not both at the same time. The dog is to old to go far. I am not starved for attention but it's nice to get. Ken

[O'Callaghan]

I've never posted here before, but none of the links that Alan H posted actually go to the Scouting Association or to the current version of the SA rules. The correct link is

http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/...2006/10_17.htm

and the current rule is

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rule 10.18: The Kilt and Pleated Tartan Skirts

1.

Kilts and pleated tartan skirts may be worn as part of the appropriate uniform, subject to the following colour:
*

in Scotland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the tartan kilt of any tartan;
*

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to wear tartan may wear the kilt;
*

in Scotland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a pleated tartan skirt of any tartan;
*

elsewhere, female Members who are entitled to wear tartan may wear a pleated tartan skirt;
*

outside Scotland, where Members are entitled to wear tartan, male holders of appointments may wear the kilt of their own or Scout tartan and female holders of appointments may wear a pleated tartan skirt of their own or Scout tartan;
*

in Northern Ireland, male Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear the saffron kilt;
*

elsewhere, male Members who are entitled by descent to do so may wear the saffron kilt;
*

in Northern Ireland, female Members who are entitled to wear uniform may wear a saffron pleated skirt;
*

Elsewhere, female Members who are entitled by descent to wear saffron may wear a saffron pleated skirt;
*

Outside Northern Ireland, where Members are entitled to wear saffron, male holders of appointments may wear a saffron kilt and female holders of appointments may wear a pleated saffron skirt.

2.

The following items are correct wear with the tartan kilt: plain leather sporran, plain lovat green knee length socks and green garter tabs, black shoes, outer jacket tailored for wear with the kilt (optional).

3.

The following items are correct wear with the saffron kilt: plain leather sporran, plain knee length socks of a traditional colour (eg, green, fawn or white), black or brown shoes, outer jacket tailored for wear with the kilt (optional).

4.

Where a Section is wearing saffron, the sock and shoe colours must be the same for the whole Section. This decision is to be taken by the Section Leader after consensus has been sought.

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Note that the Republic of Ireland is an entirely separate country from the UK, and so not covered by SA rule 10.18. The Scouting Ireland website is

http://www.scouts.ie/

However, I can't find any uniform rules there, but I have heard that each area has to choose either green or saffron kilts, although whether that means each province or each county I have no idea. The person who posted this info on a scouting group was an American who used the word council, but they don't have councils there. I think a province would be more similar in size to a council in the US, but who knows.

To further complicate matters, Scouting Ireland also operates in the North, i.e. on the British side of the border, with its own units set up in parallel to those that belong to the Scouting Association. Obviously in Northern Ireland the uniform rules for a particular troop will be entirely different depending on whether it belongs to the Scouting Association or to Scouting Ireland, as they are entirely separate organisations, although both are national member organisations belonging to WOSM, like the BSA is in the US.

[LordKiltClad]

Since Ken is in America I'll give him the Official Word from the National Boy Scouts of America on Kilts and Uniforms. What you will find is Kilts and Khaki or Blue Shirts are not official uniforms. The Cub Scout and Boy Scout uniform does serve a purpose for disciple, conformity, and showing one scout is not more "special" than another based on non-uniform clothing options. That being Said, Venturing as a Program is not the same animal. Venturing was designed to be different. If you have attended a VLST (Venturing Leader Specific Training) you'd learn that Venturing has NO OFFICIAL UNIFORM. The RECOMMENDED uniform is Green Venturing Shirt with Green Epaulets, Grey Venturing Shorts, and Grey Venturing Socks. We have crews who locally wear a polo embroidered with the Crew number and khaki or jean shorts. For National Events such as the National Boy Scout Jamboree, Venturing turns the Recommended Uniform into a Mandatory uniform for the event. (Hence I was "out of uniform" wearing my Green Shirt and Kilt and the 2005 Jambo).

As Sherry posted linking to Crew 1298. I am a Crew Advisor for 1298. Here's the updated website http://www.crew1298.org/ One of our divisions of the Crew specialize in Highland Culture. Our "uniform" is a Green Venturing Uniform Shirt, and a Black Watch, MacLaren, or Personal Family Name Kilt.

Also if you decide to Take Woodbadge for the 21st Century, unless the Kilt is specifically listed on your Crew's Bylaws as a Standard Uniform, then you won't be allowed to wear it for the duration of the course. Most WB course Directors have been stricter on policing uniform conformity .

If you have any questions related to Scouting or Venturing I've been an Advisor who pushes the limits of the program for some time now. Another local Crew to Dallas/Fort Worth , Crew 1876, owns 6 Howitzers for Civil War demonstrations. How cool is that?

Anyways, if you have questions, PM me.

Gordon

[Frank McGrath]

Years ago, I attended the jamboree at Fort AP Hill in Virinia and remember seeing a troop in kilts. I do not know where they were from. we were there for the day and the coutmaster was in a hurry and would not let us talk to anyone. as an asst Scoutmaster, I should haveput my foot down. But I have never forgotten the sight Of a Scout troop in kilts marching off. They even had a piper.

[Riverkilt]

Ain't this a great board! Here's Ken off on his own out of the sheer love of and common sense of kilting bringing FREEDOM to young men. Another shining example of how the practicality of kilts is the attraction for men with self-confidence and common sense.

As an old Boy Scout I well remember occasional pictures or sketches in Boys Life Magazine of kilted scouts.

As for all them various rules and regulations and sub-sections and geographic prohibitions....well, you know how I feel about such inane nonsense.

Young men should not be raised to follow silly rules, they should be encouraged to find their spirit and blossom proudly.

Thank you Ken for doing just that on a small part of the Planet.

Ron
Brave, Clean, and Reverent....

[pdcorlis]

Yeah - what Ron said!

Phil
Trustworthy, Loyal, and Helpful...

[Standard]

Well said Gordon. That is what I also was told in training about uniforming regulations for Venture Crews. I think it would be pretty cool to have a kilted crew, and actually think that those in my crew would go for it. The parents would be a harder sell then the youth. I too remember old Boy's Life articles from across the pond showing kilted Scouts on outings and also at the National Jamboree. Nice to see this thread getting resurected.

It is also my understanding that the MacLaren clan cheif has given permission for that tartan to be worn by Scouters. I believe that MacLaren had something to do with the early Scouting movemnt just after Lord Baden-Powell. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this.

[sirdaniel1975]

When I was 7 years old and joined Cub Scouts, one of the Scouts magazines that came in the mail had a cover photo of some Scottish Scouts running through a glen in their Scouts uniform whilst kilted. This would be about 1982 or 1983. I wish I still had that issue.