Canvas Kilt, ACK!!!!

[Alan H]

OK, I finally got started on it this weekend. I mis-figured how to fold in the depth of the pleats and had to rip three out and start over, but I figure that's fair game for a first-kilt, eh? This puppy is going to be a four yarder. The pleat depth is 4 inches; a two inch overlap with a 1.25 inch reveal. Well, to be honest, this canvas is kind of tough to work with and impossible to pin in place and so the pleat overlap depth varies from 1 7/8 to 2 1/2 (the one extra deep pleat is there to hide a goof) , but let's not get picky. Most of them are pretty close to 2 inches deep. The reveal is more-or-less reasonably constant at 1.25 inches, though the side pleats...I built three of them a bit fan-shaped, so the reveal is about 3/4 of an inch at the waistline and about 1 1/2 inches halfway down the pleat. I figure that'll do for a bit of taper to the waistline. The pleats across the back are straight, and pretty much, more-or-less right in there at 1.25 inches reveal and 2 inches deep.

My waistline is 40, my butt is 44. I fringed the right apron edge with a fold-over of the raw edge of the material and double stitched it. I stitched down the left hand edge of the apron, full-length. The distance across the apron front is 19 inches, and I A-shaped/tapered the apron by about an inch and a half on each side so the bottom is about 22 inches.. I also stiched down the INNER fold that lies under the left hand edge of the apron, though I don't think I got it quite right and might have to rip it out and relocate it. All the other pleats are stitched down 6 inches from the top of the waistband. Each pleat is triple-stiched at the top 1-inch of the waistband and triple stitched at the bottom 1-inch of those 6 inches. As it stands now I don't plan to stitch down the rest of the pleats, though I might change my mind.

The kilt is turning out a bit longer than I'd planned. It's covering my knee instead of being at the middle of it, but a lot of contemporary kilts are that long, so I'm not gonna sweat it. I'll remember this for future work, though.

Anyway, I have two questions. Number one: I've done 18 pleats, and when I drape the half-finished thing around me ****, it looks like I'm going to need more like 22 pleats. I calculated very carefully, what's the deal here? Is it common to use more material than it appears you will need? I have more material so it's no big deal, but I'm flummoxed. When I compare it to one of Rocky's philabegs that I own I notice that to get a kilt that fits me, he put in 18 pleats with a 1.5 inch reveal, so I went wrong somewhere.

Second question... I'm coming to the conclusion that this sucker is going to be stiff as a board. To get pleats that look like anything I'm going to have to keep after them with an iron, which will just make it stiffer. Barring that, I can stitch down the pleats which will make it even stiffer!

This is standard Carhart canvas, the stuff they make their work clothes out of.

I know that canvas is supposed to be a bit stiff, but sheesh!!! Any suggestions of how to lighten this thing up?? Hopefully it'll soften up a bit after I wash it a couple of times (I washed the material once and machine-dried it before working on it) I understand that some of the Utilikilts are Carhardt canvas, are they a lot stiffer than other kilts?

If I make another kilt I think I'm going with a lighter twill material more like what a pair of Dockers pants are made out of, or PV. Well, I know I'm making one more kilt (I ordered Barb's book) but I mean another "casual" kilt.

[Canuck]

Are you tapering the pleats at the top re: waist?
The front of the apron should be at least 20" at the waist if not 21" and the back should be 19" with the pleats. Given you are working with 18 pleats The pleat taper in the back should be about 1 inch and 1.22" the width of the pleat at the hip. What is the length of your kilt? If you are sewing down the pleats 6" is the length 18"? you need to stitch it down about a 3rd of the overall length.
Sometimes if you prewash the fabric before you start you will have an easier time constructing the garment. It will soften up with time.
Are you top stitching the edge of the pleat?
Did you kick out the bottom of the over apron on the left side, to prevent curl? this would make the bottom of the apron about 23.5" with a double pleat depth.
Anyway check your instructions again and math, work it out on paper with a line drawing and you will get the picture.
Cheers
Robert

[Alan H]

Are you tapering the pleats at the top re: waist?
The front of the apron should be at least 20" at the waist if not 21" and the back should be 19" with the pleats. Given you are working with 18 pleats The pleat taper in the back should be about 1 inch and 1.22" the width of the pleat at the hip. What is the length of your kilt? If you are sewing down the pleats 6" is the length 18"? you need to stitch it down about a 3rd of the overall length.
Sometimes if you prewash the fabric before you start you will have an easier time constructing the garment. It will soften up with time.
Are you top stitching the edge of the pleat?
Did you kick out the bottom of the over apron on the left side, to prevent curl? this would make the bottom of the apron about 23.5" with a double pleat depth.
Anyway check your instructions again and math, work it out on paper with a line drawing and you will get the picture.
Cheers
Robert

Robert, I have no instructions! I'm looking at the kilts I've got, and improvising! I figure I'll learn as I go, and the material cost me all of $18, so I don't care if I mess it up.

I'm tapering pleats at the "turn", meaning the sides of the kilt at my hips, but not tapering anything along the back. I could tuck in a few of those pleats, though, pretty easily...just rip out a few stitches and re-stitch...

OK, my apron is a bit narrow at the top compared to your suggestions and so the pleats will wrap around a bit more. That might account for two more pleats, I suppose. In fact, I think that is the answer, because I did a last minute adjustment, based on what I saw in Rocky's philabeg, without adjusting the bck of the kilt. MmmmHmmm. And this material is a LOT heavier than the philabeg. I think that'll be two pleats worth, right there.

Didn't know I needed to stitch down the pleats about a third of their length. My kilt is 24 inches overall, maybe closer to 25, so my six inches is more like 1/4 rather than 1/3rd.

I have NOT stitched the top edge of the pleat, simply because I haven't gotten to it, yet, and also I'm not sure if my machine will be able to handle the thickness. I will try, though. I really hope it will, because if it won't, I'll have "floppy pleats" on the inside.

Yes, I widened the bottom of the over-apron the extra amount. The curl I'm seeing I think is from having stitched in the inner pleat fold in not quite the right place. I'll probably need to rip it out and re-iron.

Thanks for the insights, Canuck!!!

when it's all done I'll take pics and let you all see my first experiment.

[The Wizard of BC]

Start with your hip measurment.

Then subtract the apron width.

divide the remainder by the pleat reveal measurment.

This will give you the no. of pleats.

Build the kilt using your hip measurment. Make all the pleats even and straight.
The taper is in the fell area only and should come out to equal your waist.
(Waist measurment minus apron width divided by no. of pleats will equal the pleat width at the waist.)

Wash your fabric before cutting in warm water with about a half cup of Downey. Repeat about six times. Then into the dryer on cotton setting.
Then and only then cut to length.

Hope that helps. If not, call me.

[Alan H]

Start with your hip measurment.

Then subtract the apron width.

divide the remainder by the pleat reveal measurment.

This will give you the no. of pleats.

Build the kilt using your hip measurment. Make all the pleats even and straight.
The taper is in the fell area only and should come out to equal your waist.
(Waist measurment minus apron width divided by no. of pleats will equal the pleat width at the waist.)

Wash your fabric before cutting in warm water with about a half cup of Downey. Repeat about six times. Then into the dryer on cotton setting.
Then and only then cut to length.

Hope that helps. If not, call me.

The first steps are pretty close to what I figured out. This is how I did it.

I had a four yard section, cut out of a double-wide, four yard piece I bought. OK four yards is 144 inches, so that's how much fabric I have to work with.

My waist is 40 inches. OK, so that means the apron should be about 20 inches at the top.

I looked at Rocky's philabeg and duplicated the amount of A-shaping he did on that kilt. I made it symmetrical, of course, and so the selvedge edge of the over-apron is 23 inches..

Anyway, If the apron is 23 inches at the selvedge and the under-apron is 23 inches at the selvedge, then that's a 46 -inch bite out of my 144 inches. I therefore have 138 inches of material for pleats.

I wanted 18-22 pleats, and I wanted to have a 1-inch to 1.25 inch reveal. I felt that a 1.5 inch reveal was too big. OK, so if I need to cover 20 inches around me buttocks to get right 'round my waist, and there's a 1.25 inch reveal, that means I'm aiming for 16 pleats....nope. Not enough pleats, says I. But if I have 1 a inch reveal, then I'll have 20 pleats.

***ERROR..need to be thinking about BUTT measurement, not waist measurement here, but I'll continue with my thought process.****

so therefore I'll split the difference between 1.25 inch reveal and a 1 inch reveal and that will give me about 18 pleats.

138 inches of material divided by 18 pleats is 7.6 inches, so I should be able to make 7 inch pleats in this puppy, meaning a 3.5 inch overlap, and be good to go.

But in fact I did four inch pleats with a 2 inch overlap and I'm running out of material and I'm going to have to A.) add my excess from the other half of the fabric I bought and hide the seam in the pleats, and keep pleating, and 2.) keep going to 22 pleats to get 'right round my butt.

That's OK, 22 pleats looks even better than 18, so I'm OK with it, just confused. You know, now I'm wondering if in fact the piece I got really WAS four yards and not three. I'm going to have to check it.

Now, about washing 6 times with downey... I sure didn't do that. I washed once with regular soap in the machine and dried in the dryer on hot before I tried working on it. I figured I'd get most of the shrinkage out in one washing.. OK, so when it's done I'll try washing it a bunch of times with Downy and see how it goes. Wish I'd washed it a couple more times before I jumped in!

THANKS, Steve!

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

I just had to post a comment and say how encouraging it is, and unusual, that 2 commercial kilt manufacturers would take the time to monitor this forum and even reply with advice to someone trying to make a product that their company manufactures. It truly shows a sense of camaraderie among the kilted, both consumers and producers!

RJI

[Canuck]

There are kilt making instructions on the web, I had one bookmarked but it doesn't work at the moment. That being said, I think Steve and I are saying basically the same sort of thing but we approach it slightly differently, or language.
So when you look at your USA kilt flat out and open, you have an over apron, the pleated section and an under apron. So out of your 4 yds at least 23 inches for your over apron and another 23 inches for your under apron. Leaves 98 inches for your pleats. or your desired 18 pleats 5,5 inches for each pleat face and depth. But you need a double pleat on one side (over apron)and a box pleat on the other(under apron), both are double deep pleats so that also has to be taken into account, The pleated section is about half your hip. so the face of the pleated section has to be = to 22 inches. There is a formula of splitting your measurements so that hip measurement could be more in the back than in the front which can make a better fitting kilt. That is covered in Barbs book and some other instructions.
Now some makers will have you do darts in the front and under apron to taper the waist as well as the taper of the pleats in the back. And Steve also tells you where you should taper the pleats.
Once you understand the math you will get the idea.
You can also do this on paper with a scale rule and you can see on paper what you have to do with the fabric.
Most machines can handle the fabric, however the biggest challange with a domestic machine is the waistband on a sewn down kilt as you have a lot of layers to sew through in the pleated section. Use a fresh needle when you get to that part.
Give Steve a call, he offered to talk you through it.
Pleasant dreams and you will wake up at 3:00 AM and have a Ureka moment!
Cheers
Robert

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

There are kilt making instructions on the web, I had one bookmarked but it doesn't work at the moment. That being said, I think Steve and I are saying basically the same sort of thing but we approach it slightly differently, or language....

Robert, I agree that there are instructions on the web and other resources that one can take advantage of, but both you and Steve took the time respond to his question and offer some great advice, and education to the rest of us. I find that laudable. While I do not know the craft of kiltmaking, I am a better than average tailor and from looking at my SK, a casual kilt looks to be a fairly simple garment to put together, MUCH easier than a pair of trousers or even a dress shirt. That does not mean to imply that it takes a needle some thread and 20 minutes, but that the kilt is created from a single piece of cloth with no seams, and getting the pleats and apron correctly sized and arranged appears to be the biggest hurdle.

If I am incorrect, let me know. I have not attempted a kilt yet, but with the wife glaring every time I want to buy another (and I only have 2, so getting another is going to be an issue for quite a while) maybe I should put my money where my mouth is and make my next quilt. Any suggestions from anyone? I have heard Barb's book mentioned, but not sure what that is or where to get it? I would be willing to entertain ideas for a contemporary, solid color kilt to be used for business casual work or informal social occasions, similar to a pair of khaki dockers or the like.

RJI

[Southern Breeze]

I just had to post some comments of my own so here goes.
1.Carhartt canvase-try soaking it in a bathtub all day(add downy).
2.I got Barbs book today and all I can say is wow. You'll find it very enlighting.
One of my intrests is blacksmithing and I'm going to make several inexpensive canvase kilts that I don't have to worry about becoming toast. When it comes to working at a forge kilts have one advantage over pants-a built in fire-hose. Keep us posted on your progress.

[Andrew Breecher]

I know that canvas is supposed to be a bit stiff, but sheesh!!! Any suggestions of how to lighten this thing up?? Hopefully it'll soften up a bit after I wash it a couple of times (I washed the material once and machine-dried it before working on it) I understand that some of the Utilikilts are Carhardt canvas, are they a lot stiffer than other kilts?

Yes. You can pretty much stand up a new Workman's UK on its own, and it won't collapse. For that matter, I've had mine a while, washed it a bunch of times, and it's still pretty stiff. It's actually heavier than my 8-yard 13oz. wool kilt.

Andrew.