Heraldry sub-forum...

[macwilkin]

I should explain the purpose of this sub-forum: primarily it is to discuss the Chief's Crest or "clansmen's badge" in regards to traditional Highland attire, as well as related heraldic subjects, such as coats-of-arms and the myth of the "family crest".

Please remember, first and foremost, that posts should have some tie to kilts and Highland attire, since we are part of a forum about kilts.

Cheers,

Todd

[MacSimoin]

Just thought I'd post our own 'blurb' on the subject:

"The internet can be a productive avenue for genealogical research, allowing most people access to a wide array of information and research materials. However, a multitude of disingenuous websites filled with misinformation and misleading half-truths exists (so-called family 'crest' or heraldry sites for example); therefore, it pays to do some good physical research (i.e. patronizing libraries, book stores, ancestral societies, professional geneaologists) when pursuing one's personal ancestry. Consequently, the effort put forth into this 'old fashioned' and non-technical method of research usually results in a much more satisfying outcome; your findings are quite often personally worth far more (and more reliable) than the questionable material you'll undoubtedly find littering the internet."

This statement is listed at the beginning of our site's FAQ "Recommended Reading" (as a caveat for those looking into the subject, among others) and I stand by it 100%.

[macwilkin]

Just thought I'd post our own 'blurb' on the subject:

"The internet can be a productive avenue for genealogical research, allowing most people access to a wide array of information and research materials. However, a multitude of disingenuous websites filled with misinformation and misleading half-truths exists (so-called family 'crest' or heraldry sites for example); therefore, it pays to do some good physical research (i.e. patronizing libraries, book stores, ancestral societies, professional geneaologists) when pursuing one's personal ancestry. Consequently, the effort put forth into this 'old fashioned' and non-technical method of research usually results in a much more satisfying outcome; your findings are quite often personally worth far more (and more reliable) than the questionable material you'll undoubtedly find littering the internet."

This statement is listed at the beginning of our site's FAQ "Recommended Reading" (as a caveat for those looking into the subject, among others) and I stand by it 100%.

Guid on ya for posting that. Clan Societies are at the forefront of debunking the "family crest" myth -- I was sad to see a "bucket shop" this weekend in the vendor's section of the Missouri Tartan Day Festivities in St. Charles.

T.

[MacSimoin]

Todd,

Thanks. I can personally attest to the 'family crest' myth via my great-grandfather: He passed on a leather and silver coat of arms to my grandfather who in turn passed it on to my own father. Where my great-grandfather got it is unknown but he's reported (via family gossip, et al) to have said that it was given to him by his own father (who was from County Cavan, Ireland). If that's indeed true, then the arms came here to the States in 1852.

What I personally remember about the 'arms' is this: The 'arms' consisted of a hard, moldy-looking scroll of leather (or some kind of animal skin); fastened to the scroll was a silver shield with one of the Fitzsimmons arms engraved into it (the silver and black one with crescent moons if you've ever seen it). On one side of the shield (don't remember if it was the right or left) was a silver lion (rampant); I can't recall what was on the other side (I'll explain that in a minute). Lying over top of everything was a set of interlocking crossed swords (also made of silver, about 10" in length) which were also attached to the leather scroll. The entire coat of arms was about 12" (W) by 15" (H) in size, not very large at all (the shield itself was about the size of an adult male hand). Interestingly, my deceased paternal grandmother used to own (one of my aunts or uncles has it now) a painted and framed version of the same arms (it's about the size of a CD case); I have never known where she got the painting from and no one else in my family seems to know either.

The 'sad' part of this story is this: My dad allowed me to take the coat of arms to school when I was in the 5th grade, for a 'show and tell' class. When I was getting off the school bus that morning there was a commotion behind me and the kids immeditely behind me began pushing to get off the bus (I think a fight broke out). Anyway, I got pushed off the bus fairly hard from behind and everything (my brown-bag lunch, school books and the boxed coat of arms) went flying out onto the sidewalk. I remember hearing a metallic 'crinkling' and rattling sound as the box holding the arms hit the concrete and skidded into the grass.

You guessed it: I picked up the box (I should have taped it shut) only to find parts of the arms...Most of it had broken apart and spilt out after landing on the sidewalk. The silver parts of the arms were apparently so brittle that they broke apart on impact. Naturally, I was mortified at what had happened (I think I got an "incomplete" grade for the class) and when I got home I got into a lot of trouble.

I recently brought this up with my dad, simply to inquire as to what had happened to the arms. He doesn't know where its at but he says it all may have been thrown away years ago and he doesn't think he has it anymore (he thinks my stepmother threw it all out). Whether or not this coat of arms was of significance (i.e. genuine) is not for me to say and no one in my family has ever claimed a right to them (other than my great-grandfather); my dad never took much stock in where it supposedly came from but then again none of this kind of thing ever mattered much to him personally. For me, I regretted breaking a family 'heirloom' but looking back I can say that if the arms held any authenticity, then I'm a complete boob. If not, then c'est la vie.