A question on ethics...

[ronstew]

I think the above posts can be summarised: This is not so much a question of ethics as of taste.

Personally, I think the Saltire kilt is on the questionable-to-poor portion of the taste scale. Wearing it is going to tick off James and some others. Now, there are lots of other kilts worn by people on this forum that I would never wear, but it is not up to me (or Matt or James) to determine whether they are appropriate for you.

Blazn, you are not in the UK; your traditions are not those of the UK. I don't know how many British tourists are going to see you wearing your kilt in Hawaii. If nobody who would be offended is going to see it, then who is going to care?

Me, if I wanted a new tartan blue and white kilt that evoked the Saltire, I would get the Xmarks tartan.

[ronstew]

if your ancestry is Protestant (not necessarily Presbyterian), and your family has lived in this country for several generations....

Remember that the Jacobites were Roman Catholics. So one would assume that there would be plenty of Catholic Scottish Americans out here too.

[longshadows]

Remember that the Jacobites were Roman Catholics. So one would assume that there would be plenty of Catholic Scottish Americans out here too.

Sorry, I'll edit my posting. I shold have remembered that. Thanks for calling to my attention.

MP

[davedove]

Even if you can't find any Scottish ancestors, there are some Irish and some Welsh family tartans.

If unable to find a tartan from the family tartans, look into the district tartans. You're in Hawaii right now and it has a state tartan. I believe you said you were from Indiana, they have a tartan. Do you have any German ancestors, use the German National tartan.

And there are many other tartans for states, countries, Scottish and Irish districts.

You have a wealth of tartans from which to choose, even if you feel the need for a connection to wear a certain tartan (as do I).

If all else fails, there are even fashion tartans which ANYONE can wear, because they don't represent anything. Stillwater Kilts Nightstalker tartan is an example.

[mbhandy]

Of course you can fall back to old traditions and wear what is avalable at the weavers shop :rolleyes:
So now a days just about any coulour is avalable

MrBill

[macwilkin]

Remember that the Jacobites were Roman Catholics. So one would assume that there would be plenty of Catholic Scottish Americans out here too.

Not to go religious, but the Jacobites were "multi-faith", including RCs, Episcopalians and even some Presbyterians. And, I think Longshadows was referring to the Ulster-Scots, who were overwhelmingly Protestant.

Cheers,

Todd

[Cawdorian]

A district tartan is a great way to go, I wear a District of Argyll tartan Kilt, it honors three of my ancestral families from the District of Argyll, the Campbells, Lamonts and McGregors.

As you study the history of the Clans back through the years you will find that some Clans have Protestant roots others have Catholic roots, Clan Lamont is an example of a clan with Catholic roots. The present day Chief of Clan Lamont is a Catholic Priest who lives in Australia. One of the things Clan Campbell is noted for is it's advancement of the Presbyterian cause.

[James]

I seem to have managed to get some to agree and some to disagree-the best way for an argument.

However I must pick up on a specific point-that is the suggestion of 'An American Tradition'.

Now that is fine in respect of some of the garments which have adopted the name of kilt-such as The Utilikilt-for they is an unique American garment, and certainly their tradition must be American/Global, and really has little if anything to do with Scotland.

However it is not possible to have it both ways-that is claiming a highland tradition as the basis for the kilt as we know it and so justifying the wearing of such a garment-whilst at the same time ignoring that tradition except when it suits one.

This leads back to the idea that tartans are not just pretty patterns, they have a meaning-be that meaning of Clan-a pattern reserved for the Chief , or maybe The Royal Family, and so on-maybe for an American Police Pipe Band or whatever. The last might be of recent origin, but albeit new-a tradition that I for one would respect, and a part of that respect would be to not wear that tartan, for to do so would be to masquarade under a false flag.

Coming full circle, if there is to be any validity to the kilt as we know it, we need to see it as more than just a sensible way to dress: rather it is something linking us to our heritage, a heritage of which we are, or should be proud. A heritage of which we cannot cherry pick the bits we like and ignore the bits we feel do not suit our wishes of the moment.

It is our choice, we either buy into the entire package as an entire package: or we throw it out of the window and lose any right to claim that wearing the kilt is anything other than a possibly eccentric, albeit sensible way of dressing.


James

[ronstew]

...the Jacobites were "multi-faith", including RCs, Episcopalians and even some Presbyterians.

We'll get this right eventually!

[flairball]

Why do you wear a kilt? Do you wear a kilt because you like the comfort and look of a kilt, or do you wish to bring the traditional highland look back into fashion?

If you wear a kilt because you like the comfort of it, and the look then I'd say wear whatever tartan you like. I suspect, like many newly converted kilties, you prefer the comfort of the kilt, and don't care much for the whole "Scottish" look. So, while there might be times when you wear a sporran, or kilt hose with flashes, there are probably many more when you find yourself in sneakers, or work boots. Do you wear traditional styled shirts with your kilt, or whatever t-shirt catches your eye in the morning? If you think your more of a comfort loving kilt wearer then there really aren't any rules. You wear it how you want to, and whatever tartans you like. The only exception I could imagine, would be to put together a formal outfit for occassions that warrant it. For such an outfit I would find a tartan relavant to your life or history, as you never know who you'll end up rubbing elbows with at formal functions.

Now, if your kilt wearing is geared towards reproducing traditional highland dress, you've got more rules to follow.

Good luck.