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13th March 08, 02:40 PM
#1
MacKinnon Heraldry
Good morning all .
The coat of arm of the MacKinnon are quarterly:
1: a boar's head for the name MacKinnon;
2: a castle for Mac Leod;
3: a biorlin (ship) for Mac Donald;
4: a hand holding a cross for Mac Donald or Iona...
Knowing that MacKinnon, Mac Leod and Mac Donald shared Skye, I would be interested in knowing what were their relationship. They were obviously linked since they are all present on the coat of arms. But still, did they "borrowed" cattle from one an other or battle against each other (apart from in, outside or around the Pub...) ?
Have a nice day,
Robert
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13th March 08, 02:52 PM
#2
moved thread...
Robert,
Don't forget we have a whole section on Xmarks devoted to Heraldry & Tartans. I moved the thread there.
Regards,
Todd
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13th March 08, 03:04 PM
#3
I must be tired... just could'nt find it !
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13th March 08, 05:03 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Ancienne Alliance
The coat of arm of the MacKinnon are quarterly:
1: a boar's head for the name MacKinnon;
2: a castle for Mac Leod;
3: a biorlin (ship) for Mac Donald;
4: a hand holding a cross for Mac Donald or Iona...
...They were obviously linked since they are all present on the coat of arms.
Robert,
Just a note.
The quarterly arms of the western clans represents something different than quarterly arms elsewhere.
You can read more about it here:
http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/westhigh.html
These are celtic "totems" and don't represent individual family lines. However, related clans will often have some quarters in common.
Originally Posted by Ancienne Alliance
1: a boar's head for the name MacKinnon;
2: a castle for Mac Leod;
3: a biorlin (ship) for Mac Donald;
4: a hand holding a cross for Mac Donald or Iona...
For all of these, the tinctures or colors are important. A hand holding a cross is seen in many different families, and different colored/formed crosses can represent different saints, etc. I wouldn't say that every ship/galley etc represents MacDonald. Boars heads and castles are also seen in a lot of other Scottish arms, not just the ones listed.
Anyway, thought you might like learning about the West Highland tradition a bit!
Kyle=
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15th March 08, 02:00 PM
#5
Thank you Kyle,
I'm really astonished to learn about these West Highland tradition in heraldry.
This "totem" system is very impressive. But I do hope it's not just modern speculation on the subject.
best,
Robert
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15th March 08, 02:54 PM
#6
No, I don't believe this is modern speculation in terms of the arms. I mean, we know they've existed for hundreds of years as such. Why they were done that way I think is an open question, but some of it is very well known.
Not only that, but the meaning or family associations of particular totems is well known, others not so much.
The lion rampant Gules is the symbol of the kingdom of Dalriada. The various held crosses tend to represents Saints Columba, Moluag, and others. The salmon is a mysterious symbol that appears to be an old celtic symbol of wisdom, I believe I've read. Anyway, there are old gravestones with these type arms going back for a couple hundred years.
it's not well-known outside of Scotland, but they are quite well known there!
Of course, I'm no heraldry expert, just an interested party like you!
Kyle=
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16th March 08, 12:53 AM
#7
Without going into any detail,the MacLeods and the MacDonalds did,on occasion,awful things to each other.When it suited them though, they were allies.I am not sure how the MacKinnons fit in.
Last edited by Jock Scot; 16th March 08 at 02:04 AM.
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16th March 08, 02:19 AM
#8
It's still isn't clear to me as to why the MacKinnon had all those "totems" in their coat of arms...
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16th March 08, 02:34 PM
#9
Well, Robert, that is the problem with the celtic "totems" of West Highland heraldry. It's not always obvious where they come from. I'd say unless you can find some sources to back up the reasons why the MacKinnons have particular totems, or can do some research about the particular totems in WH heraldry, it's pretty hard to say.
From my own chief's arms, he has a red hand holding the blue cross of St Moluag. It was actually taken from an old gravestone without tinctures, of course, but was then basically designated to be St Moluag's cross, because the MacLeas/Livingstones are the successors or co-arbs of Moluag's work and still bear his staff.
But, the reason why he has a salmon in the 4th quarter (wisdom?) is really unknown.
And the 1st quarter contains the rampant lion (red) on or (gold), so given that that is the symbol of the kingdom of Dalriada and the ancient histories suppose that the clan descends from Dalriada, that is probably the reason there.
But my point is that sometimes the reasons are very obvious and other times they are very unclear. This is also true with heraldry in general and Scottish heraldry in general, so the totem bit in WH heraldry is not a unique "meaning" problem there.
Let me take another look at MacKinnon and see if I come up with anything useful.
Kyle=
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16th March 08, 02:51 PM
#10
The article I cited above was written by Alastair Campbell of Airds Unicorn Pursuivant of Arms, who certainly wrote from extensive knowledge on the subject.
He states that Castles in general usually denote ownership of a particular castle or site. I don't know if there is a well known MacKinnon castle site, but that would be one good option there. Doesn't necessarily indicate a connection to MacLeod, I would think.
The galley (ship), he talks about more at length:
The Galley
The Galley comes in various forms; it may have its oars in action or crossed in saltire; it may have a flag, a cross or a flaming beacon at the masthead; it may or may not have a crew of various numbers; it may be in, or out of the water; its sails may be furled or unfurled and it may have a salmon crammed into the same quarter swimming under it.
Two of its most famous appearances are as the Galley of the Isles and as The Galley of Lorne used by two of the lines of Somerled's progeny - the MacDonalds and the MacDougalls.
But it was earlier in use on the seals of the Isle of Man and there can be little doubt that this is the symbol of Norse Royal power.
Sir lain Moncreiffe, indeed, derives it from the symbol used to denote the male embodiment of the old pagan goddess-spirit Nerthus - the Earth Mother - from whom the old Peace-Kings of Uppsala claimed descent and whose symbol was a crescent-moon-shaped Galley. This may be taking it a bit far - I don't know - but the galley was the real instrument for the application of power in these seas for many a century and its own symbolism, I should have thought, was powerful enough.
Basically, I think from reading this, the galley indicates descent from Somerled, the Norse-Scottish leader, in one line or another. I would read more about him--he's an interesting chap. His DNA lines are R1a, which in Scotland usually indicates Norse descent in the male line (and the reason why Somerled is not thought today to be straight Scottish even though he defended his Scots kingdom against TRUE Norse invaders).
The Boar's head seems to be rare in WH heraldry. I only find the example of MacKintosh, which added the Boar's head later. Perhaps if you looked into MacKintosh heraldic history a bit, you might find out why. The MacKinnon reason for inclusion *could* be the same??
The hand holding the cross must be a reference to a saint, most likely Columba. As is said: In conjunction with the Cross [the red hand] implies a connection with St. Columba himself a scion of the O'Neills - The O'Donnell being the Coarb and Chief of the Kindred of St. Columba. SO this would indicate a relationship or alignment with the O'Neills or possibly with St Columba himself or his pastoral lands.
Just some ideas, I could be wrong on these.
Hope it helps!
Kyle=
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