First set of bagpipes

[beatty37]

Iv been playing the practice chanter for about 6 months now and i want to buy a full set of highland pipes.

the only problem is that i am not on a large budget and i'm very very tempted to buying a set of pakistani bagpipes
(hakamdins would be my choice)

i have been told not to and to look for a set of north american or scotish made pipes

does anybody have any recomendations for a piper who isnt on a big budget??

[Tattoo Bradley]

I've moved this thread to the Celtic Musicians forum, as it's more suited there. Feel free to visit the Kilt Board Newbie and introduce yourself to this lot.

[Kiltedfirepiper]

Dunbar poly's are the way to go when on a budget.

checkout bobdunsire.com trading post too. you'll find good pipes at a good price there too
KFP

[Nighthawk]

Iv been playing the practice chanter for about 6 months now and i want to buy a full set of highland pipes.

the only problem is that i am not on a large budget and i'm very very tempted to buying a set of pakistani bagpipes
(hakamdins would be my choice)

i have been told not to and to look for a set of north american or scotish made pipes

does anybody have any recomendations for a piper who isnt on a big budget??

I've asked that same question. If you have an instructor, and mine is any kind of indicator, his face will pale as soon as you mention Pakistani pipes. Experienced pipers seem to be very adverse to the idea of Pakistani's... I personally am saving for a set of Dunbar P3's myself.

[Phogfan86]

Kiltedfirepiper has this one right, from what I gather from members of my band who couldn't start off with a set of blackwood Dunbars or McCallums.

I had luck on eBay, but caveat emptor.

[Thunderbolt]

If you want to be a piper, continue to be a piper succeed as a piper...don't do it.

You will only get better if you spend more time on the P.C. while you save your pennies to buy a good set. No harm done.

T.

[Mr. Woolery]

Argh!

Everyone points new folks to the plastic Dunbars when they are on a budget! Don't assume that plastic pipes are that much cheaper! Figure out what you want first! Only get plastic pipes if you want plastic pipes. There are reasons to use plastic, but price is not really one of them, when you compare to other entry-level bagpipes.

The plastic Dunbar pipes are not really much of a savings over blackwood when you compare apples to apples. The cheapest price I know of for P1s is at www.hotpipes.com. He has them for $775. Not bad, really. But that's with cane reeds and a leather bag. Now, a new piper does not need the headaches of learning to use cane reeds. Your instructor will agree with me there. By the time you add in a set of Ezee drone or Wygent or MG or other modern synthetic reeds, you have added about a hundred bucks to the price. So, realistically, you are looking at more like $875 to get a set of Dunbar P1s with reliable reeds. What else can you buy for the same price?

Well, at www.jhiggins.net you can get a set of McCallum AB0s, in blackwood, minimal metal, elegant and understated for $895. Comes with MG reeds and a Canmore bag. That's right, spend another $20 and you get blackwood and one of the hottest names in new pipes. I play McCallums and they are like thee Yamaha of the piping world - there are better pipes, but not for the same price point.

Or, there's www.thescottishpiper.net where you can get a set of Wallace, plain turned pipes in blackwood with Ezeedrone reeds for $750. Includes shipping. In other words, $25 cheaper than the cheapest source I've seen for Dunbar. Scottish made, good pipes. And you get the synthetic reeds and bag as part of that package. And they still look fancier than those P1s.

If you check around with your local pipe bands and ask your instructor, there may be used sets available for a decent price, too. That's often the best way to go, really. A well-played bagpipe that has been properly treated will sound better than a new one. The wood improves with time and playing. This is true of any wooden instrument, as far as I am aware.

If you really want to get Pakistani pipes, find out how much they will cost to get them up and running. Compare to the cost of any of the pipes I am talking about, then factor in some of the other details. Your initial cost is probably going to be around $200, right? You will need to replace reeds, almost certainly. That's about $100, as I mentioned above. If you are lucky, the bag will be good. If not, you have to replace it. Last Pakistani bag I saw was gooey on the outside from whatever greasy mess they used to season it. I've been told this is standard, nowadays. Nasty. I would not play that, ever. My clothes are worth a replacement bag. A new one will cost over $100, perhaps over $200, depending on what you get. Used bags do show up on the market for around $50, but I never trust that they will have a lot of life left in them. If you know a piper who tried a bag for a short time and wants to pass it on cheap, that's fine. Then there's also the chanter. Pakistani chanters just are not made right. I'm talking about holes in the wrong places, notes so far out of tune that they just won't be capable of playing a true scale. Many are also pitched very flat of modern pipe standards, so you will be unable to play with others at all. A plastic chanter of any quality is going to be at least $150 new.

You can try to get a bargain on your pipes if you want, but you run a very real chance of paying at least $350 more for a set of Pakistani pipes than you would think from the sticker price. And possibly more, depending on what might be wrong with them in terms of boring of the holes, proportions overall, seasoning of the wood, and all the other things that might be wrong with them. And there are darned few (though I will be fair and say there are some) that sound anywhere near as good as a first-world-manufactured instrument. You'll never be sure of getting one of the good sets via mail. You have to try them to be sure.

I can't really suggest any cheap alternatives, though I have thought for years that someone should put a decent chanter and bag on Pakistani drones that have been properly bored and polished and sell them as a starter set for cheap, but with a return warranty and full disclosure. However, as I see it, that means a bagpipe for about $500, which is 2/3 the cost of an entry-level Scottish pipe (the Wallace). If I was in the market for a new set, I'd just save another few months and get the set made in Scotland.

I just realized that if I ever start teaching pipes, I am going to get a set of the cheapest junk Pakistani pipes on the market and be able to show them to my students so they will know why not to buy them. It would actually be worth it for educational purposes.

I hope this does not overwhelm you, I just feel that there are several bases that need to be covered when this topic comes up.

-Patrick

[beloitpiper]

I know you're on a budget, but to be realistic, you're going to have to spend around $1000 on a decent set of pipes, bag, and reeds. Mr. Woolery has pointed out some good deals, and I myself play MacCallums, but there's three things I'd recommend you look for in beginning pipes:
1)Synthetic bag - zero maintenance and a zipper which makes fishing out reeds MUCH easier
2)Synthetic reeds - purists prefer cane, but I have some carbon fiber Naill drone reeds, and they provide a deep, full sound that really carries.
3)"easy" chanter reed - Get two easy strength chanter reeds, break them both in at the same time by alternating them, that way you'll have a backup if one gets damaged.

Hope that helps. Don't buy Pakistani pipes! They'll just cause headache and frustration!

[george7]

Pakistani made bagpipes are great for lots of things... bonfires, bagpipe tossing, and keeping people from learning how to play bagpipes.

I got tempted and bought a set once. I already had a set. Disappointed is an understatement for how I felt when I saw them. They are currently on loan to a man who uses them for SCUBA photos.

[PiobBear]

From the Pakistani pipes I've had direct experience with, I would expect that:

You will need a new chanter. Period. If they bother to tune their chanters at all, they have very curious notions of what constitutes a mixolydian scale in Bb.
You will probably need a new chanter stock. Pakistani stocks, bores, etc. are too small. Try and bore it out to take a real chanter, and it'll split.
You will need drone and chanter reeds. Don't be surprised if you need reed extenders or to countersink the reeds to get the drones in tune (or even to get the reeds to fit).
You will probably need a new bag. Several Pakistani bags I've seen are as air-tight as a colander. All of them were quite small.
You will need a new flapper valve. Again, the tendon of the blowpipe is too small, so you'll have to trim it. Some I've seen look like they were cut off with a chain saw, so it might need to be squared up and sanded smooth before a flapper could even work.

OK; now they hold air. The drone bores look like they were bored with a bit of dull flint on a stick. They're very small, very rough, often off center, and I've seen one that was bored from both ends but didn't quite meet in the middle; you couldn't see daylight through it. The tuning pins are thin, and often the pins and resonance chambers are out of round. Fire them up, and the first thing you'll notice is that because the blowpipe bore is so narrow, it's like trying to blow through a cocktail straw. The second thing you notice is how completely out of balance it is; even with good reeds the chanter overwhelms the small caliber drones. The third thing you realize is that you've just spent an equivalent amount of money on a frustrating, aggravating, wonky set of fatally shoddy pipes that you will never be satisfied with as you would have paid for a high quality set which you would've been proud of for the rest of your piping career, which could've been played virtually straight out of the box.