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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyR View Post
    I think I see what you mean... the "dark" sections of BW are 'symetrical in and of themselves while the "sections with the thick black line" in the MacNaughton are NOT symetrical in and of themselves.
    Yup, that's what I meant. In reality, you could assign a letter to every single element and represent the tartan as ABCDEFGFEDCBABCDEFG...... (which is essentially what the sett abbreviation is). If you called this an AB tartan, you'd group some of the individual elements (maybe A=A+B+C+D and B=D+E+F+G).

    But what if you had a tartan where the elements were BAB CDEDC BAB FGHGF BAB CDEDC

    It could be AB, if A= 1/2A+B+C+E+D+C +B + 1/2A, and if B = 1/2A B+F+G+H+G+F+B+1/2A

    But it might be more useful to lump a little differently and call it an ABAC, where A= B+A+B, B=C+D+E+D+C, and C=F+G+H+G+F

    Wow - is that confusing, or what???
    Kiltmaker, piper, and geologist (one of the few, the proud, with brains for rocks....
    Member, Scottish Tartans Authority
    Geology stuff (mostly) at http://people.hamilton.edu/btewksbu
    The Art of Kiltmaking at http://theartofkiltmaking.com

  2. #32
    ChattanCat is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
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    er, I like the abac or abab... simple minds, simple alphabet!

  3. #33
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    I took this question out of my post back there until Barb answered the Black Watch question.

    Are you all looking at the actual tartan, or instead, at the written thread count for the tartan to figure all of this out?
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  4. #34
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    It's much easier to look at the actual tartan. it's easier to visualize the pivots than to calculate them with the thread counts.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasem View Post
    It's much easier to look at the actual tartan. it's easier to visualize the pivots than to calculate them with the thread counts.

    Interesting... It seemed so mathematical in the way it is being discussed.
    Guess it just seemed like you could match up the color/number combinations.

    The only way I have to understand what a tartan looks like is through it's thread count, I guess the sett size too.
    I tried to ask my inner curmudgeon before posting, but he sprayed me with the garden hose…
    Yes, I have squirrels in my brain…

  6. #36
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    I know exactly what you mean Barb. Yes, the descriptions can get a bit confusing.

    I think my brain is fried from the Xmas rush. Time to get some sleep.
    Last edited by RockyR; 20th December 08 at 10:01 PM.

  7. #37
    ChattanCat is offline Oops, it seems this member needs to update their email address
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockyR View Post
    I know exactly what you mean Barb. Yes, the descriptions can get a bit confusing.

    I think my brain is fried from the Xmas rush. Time to get some sleep.
    Or time to do some pleating...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChattanCat View Post
    Or time to do some pleating...
    Don't remind me! My box pleat is patiently waiting on the table, and I've been out of town for a couple of days.
    Ken Sallenger - apprentice kiltmaker, journeyman curmudgeon

  9. #39
    M. A. C. Newsome is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasem View Post
    It's much easier to look at the actual tartan. it's easier to visualize the pivots than to calculate them with the thread counts.
    Maybe only if you are taking the thread count yourself and have to figure out where the pivots are, but in that case you are startiung with a peice of cloth anyway, so the question is a moot one.

    But if you are looking at a recorded thread count, the pivots will always be the first and last numbers listed, so no calculation is necessary.

    The MacNaughton, for instance, is:
    K4 B4 R52 B26 K26 G50 R52 B4 K4

    In this case, both of your pivots are K4 (four black threads). To further confuse maters, the are both also bordered by four blue, and 52 red. So if you are starting with either pivot and working your way towards the center of the pattern, it looks the same until you get to those middle three elements, which are going to look different depending on your direction.

    Really, what we have here is a typical symmetric tartan, with two pivot points. It's just that those pivots look very similar, which can lead to confusion if someone isn't looking carefully.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome View Post
    Really, what we have here is a typical symmetric tartan, with two pivot points. It's just that those pivots look very similar, which can lead to confusion if someone isn't looking carefully.
    True - that's what I was trying to explain with the scan and the As and Bs (which are each pivots). Where things got bogged down was in trying to explain why anyone would bother to designate an ABAC tartan, which really only has two pivots and could be equally easily called an AB tartan......!
    Kiltmaker, piper, and geologist (one of the few, the proud, with brains for rocks....
    Member, Scottish Tartans Authority
    Geology stuff (mostly) at http://people.hamilton.edu/btewksbu
    The Art of Kiltmaking at http://theartofkiltmaking.com

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