To hat bow or Not to hat bow

**BoldHighlander** · 5th March 10, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

I'll try to snap a photo of the cockade my mother made for me years ago in the livery colours of our chief.

T.

Todd, did you ever get the picture taken? ....just curious

**thescot** · 5th March 10, 04:53 PM

Mine being gules and argent (Donnachaidh), I've made several simple cockades myself. I'll try to get a photo as well for comparison.

In fact, I've been thinking of replacing one of the white cockades I usually wear with a red and white ribbon cockade, so I think I'll do it and take a picture. I know all will be waiting with baited breath.

**BoldHighlander** · 5th March 10, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by thescot

Mine being gules and argent (Donnachaidh), I've made several simple cockades myself. I'll try to get a photo as well for comparison.

In fact, I've been thinking of replacing one of the white cockades I usually wear with a red and white ribbon cockade, so I think I'll do it and take a picture. I know all will be waiting with baited breath.

I for one!

**macwilkin** · 6th March 10, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by BoldHighlander

Todd, did you ever get the picture taken? ....just curious

Apologies for the delay...not the best photo, but at least it gives you an idea of what it looks like.

T.

**Tobus** · 6th March 10, 01:32 PM

Traditionally speaking, civilian cockades should be made up of one's livery colours, or the livery colours of one's chief. And shame on those who do not know their chief's livery...

Well double shame on me then, because I don't even know what livery is in the first place.

I don't know how I'm supposed to have livery colors if I don't have livery in the first place (or not that I know of anyway). What the heck is livery???

**BoldHighlander** · 6th March 10, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by cajunscot

Apologies for the delay...not the best photo, but at least it gives you an idea of what it looks like.

T.

No worries Todd
Thanks for posting it, it looks good!

**EagleJCS** · 6th March 10, 05:06 PM

Todd,
That's a fine looking cockade! Did you make it yourself? If so, how did you do it and where did you find the ribbon? I went to a couple of local craft shops and couldn't find anything wider than 1.5" (this was several years ago though).

My chief (Buccleugh) has the same livery colors (or and azure for Scott).

**macwilkin** · 6th March 10, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by EagleJCS

Todd,
That's a fine looking cockade! Did you make it yourself? If so, how did you do it and where did you find the ribbon? I went to a couple of local craft shops and couldn't find anything wider than 1.5" (this was several years ago though).

My chief (Buccleugh) has the same livery colors (or and azure for Scott).

My mother made it for me a number of years ago, following the pattern from Thompson's book. The grosgrain ribbon came from a local fabrics store, if memory serves me correctly. I just don't remember one. <grin>

T.

**Friday** · 6th March 10, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

What the heck is livery???

Livery - Clothes or uniform a person of rank gave to his retainers or servants.

**MacMillan of Rathdown** · 6th March 10, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tobus

Well double shame on me then, because I don't even know what livery is in the first place.

I don't know how I'm supposed to have livery colors if I don't have livery in the first place (or not that I know of anyway). What the heck is livery???

Friday has given us the text-book (or is that the Funk and Wagnels?) definition, but there is a bit more to it than that:

Livery colours, in the Scottish sense, are comprised of the first mentioned metal (gold or silver) and colour (red, blue, black, green, etc.) in the arms of your clan chief, thusly (for Campbell, Duke of Argyll): a gyrony of eight OR (gold) and SABLE (black). So, the cockade of a Campbell would be YELLOW (representing gold) and BLACK; the arms of Menzies being Argent (white) a chief Gules (red) the livery would be WHITE and RED, and so it would follow for every armiger in the whole of Scotland, not just Chiefs and Peers.

In the early days of Scottish heraldry only the personal retainers of the Chief were given the buckle and strap; other clanfolk showed their allegiance to their chief by wearing his livery colours as a cockade, or as ribbons. As the concept of the clan badge came to denote membership in the clan (as opposed to being physically in the service of the chief) the use of livery ribbons and cockades slow faded away.

When specialized clothing is supplied to retainers (Friday's definition of livery) the custom is to use the colour for the garment, and the metal for the trimming. Although rarely seen these days in private homes, most servants' livery is of a serviceable colour (something that will not be overly conspicuous) with trimmings on the cuffs, and around the collar or lapel, of the livery colours, usually in the form of flat tape (or ribbons) although sometimes piped in the appropriate colour or colours.

Today there is a revival of livery colours being worn as cockades as a more colourful way of showing clan affiliation and recognition of one's chief.