Difficulty of Matriculating Arms?

[davedove]

The way I understand it, since arms are granted to the individual, anyone may request a granting of arms. Think of it as a very extravagant ID. There are some restrictions, but not many.

**Edit: It looks like MacMillan and I posted at the same time. It is probably the Court of Lord Lyon I am thinking of.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I was under the impression that in order to be granted arms, you must show direct descent from a person previously granted arms.

This is not the case.

...if you can show direct descent from someone born in Scotland, for example my grand-father born in Scotland 1918, you can apply for arms if you are willing to go through the preocess and expense?

Scott

The shot answer to your question is, "yes" provided you can prove descent from a Scottish ancestor. However, since Canada has its own Heraldic Authority Lyon may first require that you obtain permission from them to seek out Scottish Arms.

[dfmacliam]

Just a silly question, not meaning to hijack the thread.. and not concerning me, but a general question.... what kind of expenses would someone expect to pay to receive such title? Just a ballpark figure... I do not want to delve into someones personal business..

[Chas]

Taken from:

http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/232.html

•New Grant of shield alone, with or without motto £1,194
•New Grant of shield and crest, with or without motto £1,926

•New Grant of shield and crest, with or without motto to a commercial organisation £2,943
•New Grant of shield, crest, motto and supporters £2,597
•New Grant of shield, crest, motto and supporters to a commercial organisation £3,569
•Matriculation of previous Grant of shield alone, with or without motto £612
•Matriculation of previous Grant, including shield, crest and motto £712
•Matriculation of previous Grant including supporters £992
•Matriculation of previous Grant, with new supporters £1,388

So for a new grant it would be either £1,194 or £1,926. The rest would not apply.

Regards

Chas

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

North Americans can expect the fee for simple grant of arms (shield, Helmet, crest, and motto) to run to approximately GBP 2,200 including a fee of GBP 200 when lodging your petition. At the present rate of exchange this works out to something less than US $3,500.

[EagleJCS]

I think the person you spoke to may have confused the general attitude of the College of Arms in London with the practice of the Lyon Court. The court of the Lord Lyon is generally pleased to grant arms to virtuous and well deserving persons born in Scotland, normally resident in Scotland, and those of Scottish descent residing elsewhere.

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification!

[JSFMACLJR]

I am an armiger, bearing arms granted by Lord Lyon. I inherited them upon the death of my father. He matriculated his arms from those granted to his forebearer.

The process was a wonderful learning process that took place over a roughly 4 0r 5 year period. We petitioned Lord Lyon for a grant of arms to my g-g-g grandfather, Donald McLean, who was born in Scotland and emigrated to Canada in 129. My father then petitioned for a matriculation of those arms in his own name, as a male descendant of Donald.

The Court of the Lord Lyon requires very extensive proofs. You cannot just say that your ancestor was Scottish born and you are the third son of a fourth son of a second son of a Scot. You must produce the documents, so that there is absolutely no doubt who you are, who the ancestor was, and that he fell within the jurisdiction of Lord Lyon. You must, if you are petitioning in memory of an anscestor, have the same surname as that person.

I suggest that you read all of the information available on three websites, so that you are familiar with the whole process. As a member of the Heraldry Society of Scotland and the Society of Scottish Armigers, I would be delighted to assist in any way.

Regards,
Sandford

Sites of note:
http://www.lyon-court.com/lordlyon/l...&p_applic=CCC&

http://www.scotarmigers.net/

http://www.heraldry-scotland.co.uk/index.htm

[davidlpope]

Sandford,

Thanks. This is exactly the sort of first-hand information I was hoping for. I appreciate the resource links.

David

[dfmacliam]

Thanks Chas and MOR for that information.. It was a thought that struck me and since I am at work, I could not look it up..

[Standard]

Very interesting question, and helpful answers. This helps clear up some questions which I have also had about the process.