Origin of the MacKenzie tartan ?

[freddie]

There are great similarities between the MacKenzie tartan and the MacDonald of The Isles tartan and I've come to the conclusion that the former is a copy of the latter. I believe that the tartan which we know today as MacDonald of The Isles is in fact an old district tartan which was well known to the the Earl of Seaforth and when he created the tartan for his new regiment, The Seaforth Highlanders, he was instructed to use the Goverment tartan (Black Watch) as the base so he added red and white lines to mimic his district tartan. The MacKenzies acquired their lands after the demise of the old MacDonald Lords of The Isles and I believe that this old district tartan was later called 'MacDonald of The Isles' due to this historical fact (almost certainly by the Sobieski Stewarts as it is first recorded in their Vestiarium Scoticum collection). Acording to the Scottish Register of Tartans is has never been regarded as a MacDonald clan tartan and if a MacKenzie clan tartan ever existed why did they later chose the military one to fulfill this role?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

One thing we need to be always careful of is making sure our theories are supported with fact. As you mentioned, the earliest record we have of the MacDonald Lord of the Isles Hunting tartan is in the Vestiarium Scoticum, which was published in 1845. That book, though the Sobieski Stuarts claimed it to be a copy of a sixteenth century manuscript, later was shown to be a hoax. While some of the tartans included in that book have proven to be copies of extant tartans, many were seemingly created by the Sobieski Stuarts themselves. So, unless we find an earlier example of this MacDonald tartan, the safe assumption is that it was created by the Sobieski Stuarts.

The MacKenzie tartan, on the other hand, was created for the Seaforth Regiment that was raised by the Earl of Seaforth in 1778. As you have correctly pointed out, it is based on the Black Watch tartan (aka Government Sett). This is, in fact, a common origin for many regimental tartans. The Black Watch sett was used as the basis for the design and various colors were added to it.

Other tartans fitting into this category would include Gordon, Lamont, Robertson (Htg), Baillie, Farquharson, MacNab, Fraser of Lovat, MacLachlan, and many others.

The fact that many of these tartans came to be later regarded as clan tartans was because of the very close association between the regiment and the clan. Thus the tartan worn by the Black Watch regiment came to be worn by the Campbells, Munros, and Grants. The tartan worn by the Gordon Highlanders came to be worn by the Gordon clan. The tartan worn by the Seaforth Regiment became associated with the MacKenzies. The tartan worn by the Loyal Clan DOnnachie Volunteers was associated with the Robertsons. And so on...

So it falls well within the established tradition that the Seaforth regiment would wear a tartan that was based on the Government Sett with colored lines added for differentiation, and that tartan would later be regarded as a Clan MacKenzie tartan.

For the MacKenzie tartan to be based upon an older MacDonald "district" tartan, we would first have to establish that such a district tartan actually existed. That has not been done.

These two tartans do appear similar in terms of color, and some of the elements of the design. But we also have to keep in mind that this particular color combination is not that atypical of tartans in general, so it's probably best not to read too much into the similarities unless there is other evidence that would back up a connection.

[freddie]

Wow, I never expected such a fast response to my post, and I knew it would be contentious. What I'm trying to say is that in my theory it was NEVER a MacDonald tartan but a district one pertaining to the lands over which they once 'ruled'. These lands were later aquired by the MacKenzies and the Earl of Seaforth added red and white lines to the Goverment tartan to reflect this district tartan. Of course there is no historical evidence for this and I'm just making an educated guess. I believe it was later on when they wanted to give the tartan a name that they called it 'MacDonald of The Isles' to reflect their one time domination of this district. Here's what the Register of Scottish tartans says about the MacDonald of The Isles tartan 'The design first appeared in the Vestiarium Scoticum and is different from earlier setts attributed to the Lord of the Isles or to any of the Clan Donald branches. It is not generally regarded as a clan tartan.'

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Right. The notes from the Scottish Register come right out of the STA notes on this tartan, and they do reflect the earliest known date of this particular MacDonald tartan: 1845.

Now, if we could find any evidence of this tartan being used at all in the region in question in the eighteenth century, then your theory might be plausible. But so far as we know, the Seaforth tartan pre-dates the MacDonald of the Isles Hunting tartan by a good 70 years. So to suggest that the MacDonald tartan (whatever it may have been called) not only predates the Seaforth/MacKenzie tartan, but was in fact the basis of it, goes contrary to the known evidence that is available to us.

I don't mean to sound like I'm being dismissive of your theory. I'm just saying that it's going to need some evidence to back it up.

[figheadair]

Right. The notes from the Scottish Register come right out of the STA notes on this tartan, and they do reflect the earliest known date of this particular MacDonald tartan: 1845.

Now, if we could find any evidence of this tartan being used at all in the region in question in the eighteenth century, then your theory might be plausible. But so far as we know, the Seaforth tartan pre-dates the MacDonald of the Isles Hunting tartan by a good 70 years. So to suggest that the MacDonald tartan (whatever it may have been called) not only predates the Seaforth/MacKenzie tartan, but was in fact the basis of it, goes contrary to the known evidence that is available to us.

I don't mean to sound like I'm being dismissive of your theory. I'm just saying that it's going to need some evidence to back it up.

Matt,

As ever, you've summed up things well. There is absolutely no evidence that the MacDonald of the Isles sett existed pre-1829 and the Cromarty Mss version of the VS. Structurally this sett does not conform with what we know of early C18th tartans and from a technical perspective has little to recommend it. One point of clarification, the sett was adopted/designed in 1778 for the 78th Ross-shire Regt. It was re-numbered the 72nd in 1786 and a separate (new) 78th raised in 1793. The two regiments were amalgamated in 1881 to form the Seaforth Highlanders.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Matt,

As ever, you've summed up things well. There is absolutely no evidence that the MacDonald of the Isles sett existed pre-1829 and the Cromarty Mss version of the VS. Structurally this sett does not conform with what we know of early C18th tartans and from a technical perspective has little to recommend it. One point of clarification, the sett was adopted/designed in 1778 for the 78th Ross-shire Regt. It was re-numbered the 72nd in 1786 and a separate (new) 78th raised in 1793. The two regiments were amalgamated in 1881 to form the Seaforth Highlanders.

Thanks for that bit of information, Peter. Was hoping you'd chime in on this thread.

[freddie]

How about the Sobieski Stewarts used the Seaforth Highlanders tartan as the model for their 'MacDonald of The Isles' ? I'm sure the colourings are linked in some way, just as the Gunn and Morrison tartans are very similar to Mackay (which I'm sure I read somewhere is believed to have been an old 'district' tartan).

[figheadair]

How about the Sobieski Stewarts used the Seaforth Highlanders tartan as the model for their 'MacDonald of The Isles' ? I'm sure the colourings are linked in some way, just as the Gunn and Morrison tartans are very similar to Mackay (which I'm sure I read somewhere is believed to have been an old 'district' tartan).

As I said previously, the Seaforth Highlanders, and thus the Seaforth tartan by that name, did not exist until 1881, some 50 years after the first description of the MacDonald of the Isles. It's possible that the Sobieskis used the 78th Regtl sett as the basis for their Lord of the Isles, we'll never know. However, given the fact that a good number of the VS setts appear to be simply based on the 42nd (government) sett which various additions, there is no reason to suppose that the Lord of the Isles is any different along with their Armstrong, Chisholm, Lauder & Ogilvie to name but four.

On a similar vein, there is no evidence that standard MacKay was ever a district sett. It first appears c1800 in the records of Messrs Wm Wilson & sons of Bannockburn, as does the Gunn. The Morrision is a much later sett.