X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Celtic Croft website Celtic Corner website Houston Kiltmakers

User Tag List

View Poll Results: Tartan proliferation

Voters
90. You may not vote on this poll
  • The more the merrier!

    65 72.22%
  • Enough already!

    25 27.78%
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 37
  1. #1
    Join Date
    17th August 08
    Location
    Lowell, MA
    Posts
    826
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Tartan proliferation -- good or bad?

    Some time ago I signed up to receive e-mail notifications when new tartans are logged with the the Register of Tartans. Over the past couple of months I've naturally received numerous e-mails saying that a new tartan has been added. Many -- though by no means all -- of these seem to be "personal" tartans, designed by and for one individual and his/her family.

    So, my question is: What are we to make of this flurry of tartan design -- (aided and abetted no doubt by wonderful tools such as TartanDesigner.com)? Can there possibly be too many tartans?

    On the one hand, it's wonderful to see people take to the idea of tartan as a medium for individual expression -- to create a unique work of art honoring one's heritage that can be bequeathed to future generations. Of course, it also natural that businesses and organizations may want a unique tartan as part of their "brand" identity, and obviously commercial ("fashion") tartans will be created wherever there is a market for them.

    On the other hand are all these new tartan designs really a good thing? I feel one of the (many) positive aspects of tartan is the sense of camaraderie when a familiar sett is spotted across a crowded room. (Ah, Mackenzie! ) Does the proliferation of tartan design dilute this in any way? There are currently over 6000 tartans on the Register; at what point do we have enough?

    I obviously have mixed feelings; what do you think?
    Last edited by Tim Little; 26th February 10 at 09:32 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    5th September 05
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    5,144
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's a characteristic of the age...everybody is an artist/author/commentator...blame it on the internet and the ease with which one can now use a computer to accomplish something that once took time, a significant investment in materials and skills that sometimes took years to master.

    You can go online and make a tartan. Now it's easy so what's to stop anyone from doing it? Anybody and everybody will just do it on a whim. Every sub-sect of every family, every organization, every cause...somebody else has one so we HAVE to have one.

    I can only hope that it's just a trend and that it'll lose its novelty and fall by the wayside. We have a high school near me where they print a commemorative t-shirt for just about everything and anything that happens to the school or any of the students and it has become a total JOKE.

    I'm sure that a whole lot of these "instant tartans" will just be forgotten in short order but they will be clogging up the Tartan Registry for years. If the Tartan Registry doesn't want to impose any kind of criteria to the registration of tartans, then it's obviously up to them...I guess that it might make them look busy and relevant but I thought that they already had a significant role in the world.

    Best

    AA


    ..and that, I believe, is my 3,000th post...pretty good for a guy with a short attention span, eh?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    8th January 10
    Location
    Pinckney, Michigan
    Posts
    327
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have always said that my favorite color is plaid.
    So, I don't mind seeing th new tartans that are created, but I too would like some rules to keep the number of "register" tartans from getting out of hand.

    auld argonian -

    Congratulations on #3000

  4. #4
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,700
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Little View Post
    On the one hand, it's wonderful to see people take to the idea of tartan as a medium for individual expression -- to create a unique work of art honoring one's heritage that can be bequeathed to future generations. Of course, it also natural that businesses and organizations may want a unique tartan as part of their "brand" identity, and obviously commercial ("fashion") tartans will be created wherever there is a market for them.

    On the other hand are all these new tartan designs really a good thing? I feel one of the (many) positive aspects of tartan is the sense of camaraderie when a familiar sett is spotted across a crowded room. (Ah, Mackenzie! ) Does the proliferation of tartan design dilute this in any way? There are currently over 6000 tartans on the Register; at what point do we have enough?
    I see it from both sides. On the one hand, yes, I agree that too many tartans just dilutes the whole concept. A tartan should, ideally, mean something to a group of people and is a wonderful way of identifying a fellow from your own group.

    On the other hand, this works against people. They don't want to wear a tartan that 'belongs' to a group that they are not part of. Not everyone who wants to wear a tartan is a member of a Scottish clan or one of the other groups. These people may not want to wear a "universal" tartan that just anybody can wear; they want a tartan that gives them a sense of exclusive identity. So they're making their own unique ones that they can claim.

    Does it make the tartan registry huge? Sure it does. But there are a LOT of people in this world. I'd rather see them developing their own group tartans than just wearing any old tartan willy-nilly.

    So it boils down to this:

    Which is worse? Having too many group tartans to keep track of? Or having less tartans, but having them lose their meaning because they're being worn by people who are not connected to the group?

    Personally, I think I'd rather go with the former rather than the latter.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    19th October 09
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    An interesting question, indeed. On the one hand, I would think the more the merrier- the idea that a person is interested enough to design and register a tartan certainly means he or she has a strong commitment to Tartan and, presumably kilts and other things Scottish or at least Celtic. It is not like they just said "I like tartan." They like tartan sufficiently to go to a certain amount of trouble. And their support will be strong and valuable in the face of apathy or opposition.

    On the other hand, we might ask "What about the existing tartans?" Does this individual feel strongly about tartans without any reasonable link to an existing pattern? And this person is so special in his or her own mind that none of the universal tartans or district tartans will do- and no clan is attractive or welcoming enough to form an alliance? Pardon my low culture viewpoint, but this sounds like the behavior of a James Bond villain.

    Of course, many very generous and decent people might find themselves in a position to commission and register a tartan design. Still, I would think the expense of doing so might better be allocated to some other aspect of the field- like scholarships for pipers, weavers, kiltmakers?

    And, out of curiosity, I'd like to ask how the average clan chief regards what might uncharitably be called a Nouveau tartan? Do the Dukes and Lords slide over a little and say "Ah, here's McLowlife, come to join us. His clan is not so large and, ahem, really rather recent, but we like the color of his money and the taste of his whisky. Make room and raise your glasses. Faer fa and a that, cop a squat me lad."?

    Maybe.

    I searched for tartans bearing my name and parts or variations of it. There are tartans for my middle name and a slight variation on the name of my grandfather, but both of those tartans were designed and registered well after I got my driver's license. No offense intended to those in New Zealand ( where I have never been and none of my ancestors resided) but one of those tartans belongs to a clan founded and headquartered there. I suspect I have little or no genealogical link to those fine people and there would not be much point in my wearing their tartan. The other one seems to be one of the more personal tartans, registered by someone who actually lives a few hundred miles from me. For me to claim his tartan or to ask to wear it would be to affect ( as in the derisive word "affectation") a link that is just not there. Maybe some day, his progeny will be numerous enough, or his tartan will be popular enough otherwise to justify his efforts, but I wonder.

    And that leads me back to the larger question of why. Maybe the reason is "because I can" ( a great motto for dogs, by the way) and there really doesn't need to be any more than that. If I were hiking, or strolling, or even dancing an eightsome reel and encountered a person wearing an unknown tartan, I would eventually ask about it, but my initial assumption would be that it was an ancient and honorable one they had a perfect reason and right to wear. If I learned afterwards that they had designed or commissioned it, I don't know what I would say, if anything. I expect I would try to find some aspect to compliment. It might be fun to discuss the process, their motivation, how many yards they have in a closet somewhere, etc.

    But here is what we might call the "dream house" problem. If you inherit an association with a tartan that is, um, UGLY, it is not your fault. If you design one that is flawed, you have nobody to blame but yourself.
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  6. #6
    Join Date
    14th January 08
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    4,143
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think we can say whether more is better or not, but IMHO more demonstrates more interest in all things tartan and scottish in general. Like 200 years ago when a lot of tartans existed without necessarily being associated with anything in particular, but then a lot of them became clan tartans for whatever historical reasons, some of these new tartans may go one to have a place of significance to future generations, corporations, districts, cities, states, other organizations (firefighters, military), etc...

    I think the only potential harm is the possibility of burdening a system of reference for documenting and verifying all the new and different ones. But then again, the Library of Congress has at least one copy of each publication in the US, but nobody ever complains that they have "too many books". Afterall, that is their job.

    one man's O.

    jeff

  7. #7
    Join Date
    19th October 09
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,676
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    WHile I was nattering

    Whilst I was typing away, many wiser heads raised many good points. But reading them all leads me to the one big question that eluded me in my ramblings. If a tartan is meant to denote IDENTITY, then one user is enough, but if it is meant to signify BELONGING, then there ought to be some minimum number of users or adherents before it really makes sense. I don't know that it is necessary to police that idea, but I think it is a useful one. Maybe then, somebody needs to ask

    DOES ANYBODY CARE ABOUT THIS TARTAN?

    Like a puppy, it needs someone to love it.
    Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife

  8. #8
    Join Date
    27th October 09
    Location
    Kerrville, Texas
    Posts
    5,700
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If a tartan is meant to denote IDENTITY, then one user is enough, but if it is meant to signify BELONGING, then there ought to be some minimum number of users or adherents before it really makes sense. I don't know that it is necessary to police that idea, but I think it is a useful one.
    I wholeheartedly agree. That would seem to satisfy both sides of the equation. It would keep tartans meaningful while giving groups a benchmark for when a tartan is justified or appropriate.

    So what would the minimum reasonable group size be? 10? 100? 1000?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    22nd April 06
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    2,707
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Little View Post
    On the other hand are all these new tartan designs really a good thing? I feel one of the (many) positive aspects of tartan is the sense of camaraderie when a familiar sett is spotted across a crowded room. (Ah, Mackenzie! ) Does the proliferation of tartan design dilute this in any way? There are currently over 6000 tartans on the Register; at what point do we have enough?
    There are billions of people in the world. Does this proliferation of people make my friends any less important to me? Shouldn't we just have a few highly recognizable people, who all know one another?

    As new tartans are designed, some good ones are going to emerge as stand-outs and affinities will be formed around those that have a particular meaning or purpose (e.g. XMTS and USAK's American Heritage). As for the rest of them, what does it matter if it only means something to one person, one family, or one business? Why should recognition by everyone else be a standard for entry into existence?

    Regards,
    Rex.
    Last edited by Rex_Tremende; 26th February 10 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Extraneous punctuation.
    At any moment you must be prepared to give up who you are today for who you could become tomorrow.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    22nd January 07
    Location
    Morganton, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,173
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A couple observations:

    1) To my mind a tartan that is not woven into cloth is a non-starter. It's a pretty design on a piece of paper, akin to the loads of designs that are created on the Scotweb website. I've always appreciated that the STA requires a woven sample for inclusion in their database.

    2) I think that most tartan designs that are not affiliated with active clan societies, branches of the military, or countries/provinces/states will naturally slip into oblivion for lack of interest.

    3) I think that there will still be a clear distinction between those tartans that have been traditionally and historically associated with a highland clan or a lowland/border family and other "non-clan" tartans. I think the traditional clan tartans, in part due to their ready availability from the mills, will continue to be the most popular, although some fashion tartans (e.g. Isle of Skye) will find widespread acceptance.

    Cordially,

    David

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What's a good Christmas tartan?
    By BruceK in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 2nd January 10, 03:51 PM
  2. X-Kilt in tartan? Good or bad idea?
    By ardchoille in forum Kilt Advice
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 8th August 08, 01:31 PM
  3. Good sources for tartan by the meter
    By sjrapid in forum DIY Showroom
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 4th March 07, 07:23 AM
  4. Proliferation of kilts in the UK...
    By Captain in forum General Kilt Talk
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 17th October 06, 08:15 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0