Scotweb, kilts, and shipping to the US

[ForresterModern]

As a background, this is not a complaint, merely a story told, a lesson learned, and knowledge forwarded to my brethren here for their future use as they may see fit. More background: In October I ordered a flat cap (sorry Jock, couldn't help myself) and one of the clearence wool kilts from Scotweb, The ones that were make up custom for someone then either returned or never picked up that they sell at a discount----it happened to be almost perfectly sized and in a tartan I desired. I requested standard shipping, specifically preferring to not use FEDEX due to their customs fees policy. Due to a delay in manufacture of the cap (long story not really pertinent to this story) my overall order was delayed several months. I inquired by phone at least once, again specifying that I did not want shipping via fedex. I subsequently recieved the package about 4 months after order, shipped via FEDEX, with a followup bill from fedex for and additional $60US in customs duty and fedex handling charges (roughly $40 in duty and $20 in add on fees). These fees negated any discount on the cost of the kilt or cap due to sale prices or clearence pricing. In an email exchange with Scotweb service people regarding why Fedex had been used rather than surface shipping I recieved the folllowing:

"unfortunately due to the weight of the package we were sending to you
this was too heavy for Airmail to accept on their small packets service which we use. As such, we upgraded, free of charge, to our Fedex courier service. I have searched over your order and can find no instruction for us to not use Fedex and only use Royal Mail or Parcelforce. If we had seen this we would have informed you that the package was too heavy for Airmail and that we do not use the Parcelforce service. Our packages are not sent by particular services based on the value of the items, rather they are sent based on the weight."

The order was for a 13oz 8yd kilt and one small very lightweight cap, but it had to go fedex, which means it was destined to get hit with duty and FEDEX add on fees for handling that duty, at this time about 17.5% duty and minimum $20 fees. I realize that duties are the responsibility of the purchaser/importer, but I think we all know that other retailers in the UK can and do use other courier services than FEDEX that typically get through customs without duties, although that is no guarantee.

So the moral of this story is that when you consider ordering a kilt from Scotweb anticipate that it will be sent by fedex, and figure in the additional expense of duty of 17.5% of the value of the kilt plus an additional $20 or so in Fedex fees.

[thescot]

Good to know. The first rule under which I operate when buying is that as long as I am paying the bills, I make the rules under which transactions are carried on.

I'm pretty sure that ScotWeb will be quite low on my list of futures vendors since they don't seem to be able to follow directions. I have purchased from them in the past--not kilts--and had fairly good dealings, but customer service is not their forte.

[Nick Fiddes]

I'm very sorry you clearly feel we've let you down. Whilst you obviously want to vent your anger against us personally, I'd just like to clarify here that it is not just when buying from Scotweb that you will not be able to have a full size kilt shipped from the UK to North America by airmail. No one will do so, as there is a 2kg limit on the parcels they will carry. So for heavy packages it is courier or nothing.

Whilst I note your saying you asked us not to by phone, we have no record of this in our systems, and it certainly did not come to us as a written request. At this distance I have no way to investigate your missing voice message. Had we known of your insistence not shipping by courier, we would have given you the opportunity to cancel your order, as no other method is possible. Under the circumstances, I feel that upgrading you at our own expense (on a discount item) was our team doing its best to be helpful. But I guess you can't win them all, so I'm sorry you see it as such a negative gesture.

I'd also point out (as many times before on this forum) that the import duties you pay are roughly the same as the taxes we in the UK pay anyway, which you save on by shopping from overseas. Swings and roundabouts perhaps. But clearly you don't see it that way.

Finally, I'd ask once again that if anyone has a service complaint about our company, I'd consider it a courtesy (as outlined at the top of this forum) if people could contact me personally first to investigate and discuss, before venting their anger here publicly as a first resort. (You would always have that opportunity later anyway, should we fail to respond to your satisfaction.) We do operate a policy of seriously addressing all complaints, since it's impossible in business never to have cause for unhappy experiences. But for me the hallmark of a good business is how problems are then addressed. We'd like to have the chance to show this.

Sorry again.

Nick

[Nick Fiddes]

I think we all know that other retailers in the UK can and do use other courier services than FEDEX that typically get through customs without duties, although that is no guarantee.

And just to add... there is NO other courier service that gets stuff through customs without due fees. And by law even air mail should be charged at the same rates. It just so happens they very often don't for small packages.

To my knowledge the only other retailers who "get stuff through" by courier without paying the proper fees are the ones who are prepared to lie on official forms by deliberately misdeclaring the contents. If you are asking us to do this, I'm afraid I have to say no. Things slipping through is one thing, but actively colluding in tax avoidance by commiting legal fraud is too much to ask.

And to my knowledge, the firms who systematically lie in this way are the same firms who systematically lie to customers about the products they sell, for example by passing off shoddy Asian copies as the real thing. If you want to take your chances with such an outfit, feel free. But please don't criticise us for having higher standards.

[KiltedPilot]

To my knowledge the only other retailers who "get stuff through" by courier without paying the proper fees are the ones who are prepared to lie on official forms by deliberately misdeclaring the contents.

Nick,

I feel your making a rather extreme statement here. There are a number of reputable kilt makers, including several other advertisers on this forum, who have worked out that certain shipment methods can reliably and repeatably reduce customer's import charges versus other shipment methods. Absolutely no lying is required. I can substantiate that with specific examples.

I am concerned, however, that you are taking this reasonable debate of your rather strong statements as a criticism of Scotweb. That is not the case. You've simply put forward a rather strong view, and I simply disagree with it.

As a courtesy to you, I've put forward a detailed example in a different thread so to no longer give you angst. If you have specific examples to support your view that kilt makers must be lying to achieved these import cost reductions, perhaps you can provide that information in that thread.

The only relevance to Scotweb is that if you are not familiar with these strategies, then there is a valuable opportunity for you to learn how improve your service. It might also explain why customers might be particular as to why they request one shipping method over another.

Mike

[tyger]

In a thread some months ago, there was the expressed opinion, or fact, that no duties would be charged if a package declaring "ethnic garments" were imported into the USA. Is there a US Customs Xmarks member who can verify this as true, and tell us exactly where in the code this can befound?

[ForresterModern]

In a thread some months ago, there was the expressed opinion, or fact, that no duties would be charged if a package declaring "ethnic garments" were imported into the USA. Is there a US Customs Xmarks member who can verify this as true, and tell us exactly where in the code this can befound?

Tyger

I believe that was me making reference to something I had heard from a vendor at a games but had never verified. Take this link to my lengthy post on your other thread regarding this issue for more details:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...tml#post869024

jeff

[bricelythgoe]

Nick,

I feel your making a rather extreme statement here.

I am concerned, however, that you are taking this reasonable debate of your rather strong statements as a criticism of Scotweb. That is not the case.


Mike

I agree. I never read the original author's writing of this thread as one of extreme criticism or complaint. In fact, I don't think he was angry at all. He was just pointing out some things that happened to him. I think he has a right to do so on the forum publicly and to do it privately. I took from it that I need to be careful when ordering from ANYONE out of the country. I am assuming that was his intent. His intent never was to smear or otherwise degrade your company.

[creagdhubh]

I have ordered many items from Scotweb, to include 3 kilts and custom tartan, Argyll hose, their customer service, quality of products, and shipping has always been absolutely bang on! Have I had to pay a customs duty, yes I have, and the same goes for the many items I've ordered from Kinloch-Anderson out of Leith, Scotland. I have only had a few "minor" items that have slipped through customs without having a tax added to it, and without me being billed at a later date. You could avoid the duty all together by ordering from a company here that orders its kilts and other Highland products from companies in Scotland-then, you are only paying for shipping costs here in the States. I have done this with one kilt, in which I ordered from The Scottish Lion, a wonderful company that's been in the business for quite some time, out of New Hampshire. All I paid for that specific kilt was naturally the cost of the kilt, and the $15.00 shipping cost to have it sent to my home address here in the States. So, there are indeed ways around paying the customs duties, I suppose. Don't be upset at Scotweb, from what Nick said, they really didn't do anything wrong. I'm sorry that all happened to you and that it gave you a bad taste in your mouth, but I assure you, Scotweb is a reputable and honest company!

Cheers,

[Nick Fiddes]

Hi Mike, first, my thanks for taking the more general part of this discussion to another forum. It does make it easier for me to discuss when I'm just one of a number of voices contributing their perspective and experience to an issue, rather than having to shoulder the blame for the world economic system personally! ;-)

I was aware of the risk that my words might come across badly to some ears, and I think I understand why you use the word extreme. I'm sure you'll understand that as a retailer we are in a slightly different position than most others writing here. This can make it really quite difficult to speak freely and frankly, for several reasons...

One is that I do feel I have a duty to my company to speak with a voice that is not always the same as I would as a private individual. I hope this doesn't just mean it becomes 'corporate speak'. But it's inevitable I can't be as outspoken as others, even where I might like to. On the other hand, I do prefer to be open and truthful. This isn't always an easy balance to achieve, particularly when you know things that others don't but can't easily go into in detail.

For example, as an 'industry insider' I am party to a lot of both factual information and industry gossip that others here aren't. Part of me would love to share some of this stuff, some of which would certainly shock you. Like any industry, ours is comprised of a lot of different companies, each with their own practices and values and ethics. There are many that I respect greatly, including some active and direct competitors to us. There are others in the industry that are widely distrusted and despised for their behaviour by those in the know, but who nonetheless maintain a public front of respectability.

But I won't name names. Other than occasional reference to the Singh family, whom I consider beneath contempt, I will rarely if ever criticise a competitor by name. Why not? Several reasons. I think it reflects badly on businesses that slag off their competitors. I also think that constantly looking over your shoulder at competitors can be a huge waste of energy, and as anyone who knows me will tell you our mantra is always to get on with running our own business right instead. And our policy is just not to get involved in industry politics - I prefer to maintain positive mutually-supportive relationships where possible, and simply body-swerve the rest.

So for all those reasons, I'm sorry, but I'll have to decline your invitation to expand on my reference to supposedly reputable competitors actively and repeatedly misdeclaring in a manner that I consider blatant fraud. I've various reasons to say this with confidence, including that I've heard it bragged about, and we also in fact have documentary proof which was passed to us some time ago. But tempting though it was to make this public (or take it to the authorities) we decided not to get involved. It infuriates me when we are put at a commercial disadvantage by liars and cheats. But I hope that in the long run we stand to gain more by playing by our own rules and letting others make their own bed to lie in.

Having said that, if you are party to information about legal and honest procedures which we don't know about, and which don't have other drawbacks (such as high rates of 'loss' or rotten service standards, which ultimately cost the customer too) I'll be surprised, but we'd be delighted to hear about it. If so, I'd prefer to carry on such a discussion through the PM system where I could perhaps speak more freely (in confidence) about our own perspectives and experiences than I can publicly.