Time to VOTE for a NY State tartan

[Brian K]

OK, folks, time to decide. Two of the designs are mine and the third is one my dear friend Amble created starting with another design of mine. Because of these connections it would be hard for me to be objective in introducing the choices we seem to have settled on for polling. If you'd like to know more about them visit the original "Time For A New York State Tartan?" thread if you haven't already.

Feel free to continue the discussion here or there and please encourage anyone you think might be interested in a New York State tartan to come here and vote!

I want to leave it open for 3 weeks. I know some people think we've already taken too long, but I want anyone interested to have ample time to vote.
The choices will be labeled A, B and C in the same order they appeared in the thread. If you think that the 4 options I've outlined don't work for you then pick the 5th (start over) option and let us know what you think.

A:



B:



C:

Thanks for your time. If you have any questions or concerns, post here, the other thread or send me an e-mail or PM.

Regards,

Brian

[Wompet]

There were a few "Heart of New York" designs that I liked better, but I have to go with "C."
As to poll option #4, if I may quote the Expert:

A hunting tartan generally implies a tartan with a dominant green/blue color scheme, or sometimes mostly blue (MacLaine of Lochbuie Hunting, Earl of Inverness Hunting, etc.), or sometimes brown (Fraser Hunting). Generally the term "hunting" will describe a tartan in such a colors when the main tartan in question is a brighter color, such as red.

By definition, all three designs could be called "hunting" tartans. Or none of them are, since there isn't a different NY tartan in brighter (red/orange/yellow) colors.

[Woodsheal]

I curious as to what the "start over" voters want to see? These are pretty nice choices...!

[Brian K]

There were a few "Heart of New York" designs that I liked better, but I have to go with "C."
As to poll option #4, if I may quote the Expert:

By definition, all three designs could be called "hunting" tartans. Or none of them are, since there isn't a different NY tartan in brighter (red/orange/yellow) colors.

Thanks, Wompet. I appreciate your comments.

If this poll doesn't get much traction perhaps we'll start over with one of the other HONY designs. Maybe I should have included HONY1aaa as one of the choices. As the originator of the original I guess I gave myself a bit of latitude in making the selections and I may have been more arbitrary than I should have.

As regards the hunting tartan question, it seems that there is more than one interpretation of the term. I certainly recognize, and respect, Matt's opinion in all things tartan. He is one of the world's foremost experts in the subject after all. In your quote he uses the term "generally implies" which creates a bit of wiggle room, and I think that's deliberate. Not because he is afraid to commit, but, like any good scholar, he understands that there are some practices or usages that defy rigid codification.

On his website, in a discussion of which tartan one should choose, he uses the following words to describe hunting tartans:

Generally, a hunting tartan is one that contains more earth-tones. When a tartan is primarily a bright color, such as red, it is very common to have an alternate tartan based in green, blue, brown or some combination thereof. Sometimes the hunting tartan is created by a simple color change, such [as] Hamilton.Other times these tartans are entirely different designs, as is the case with the Robertsons.

The above quote is a bit different, being even more general and less precise, than the one you posted. As with the term "dress" in a tartan, the term "hunting" does not necessarily refer to some hard and fast rule of how they are designed. If the terms were rigid then the dress McLeod of Lewis would not be a dress tartan because the white most people associate with the term is not present at all.

While not meaning to say that I feel your opinion is invalid, I think I have to come down on the side of saying that a hunting (or a dress) tartan is whatever the owner or designer says it is, within some pretty broad limits.

Of course, my friend, you have every right to say I'm completely daft and don't have any idea what I am talking about. You'd not be the first

Regards,

Brian

[Brian K]

I curious as to what the "start over" voters want to see? These are pretty nice choices...!

Brian,

In my mind, I envisioned the "start over" option as being anything from a simple "I think we need to start the poll over with the addition/substitution of one of the other HONY designs" to "Everything sucks! Scrap it all and get someone who knows what they're doing to come up with a better design!" I thought I made it clear, however, in my OP, that if you chose option 5 that you would also post exactly what you meant by that choice to give us something to ponder. So far no one has *sigh*.

Wompet did me one better. He chose from one of the available options AND expressed a desire for a different option. I like his style!

I am more interested in coming up with something people can support than I am in getting this done in a hurry. I know you have patience. You first mentioned the idea of NYS tartan here in 2008. I hope we don't take another two years but if we do we do.

Regards,

Brian

[andyfg]

Great idea. Voted for C. Very nice.

[Woodsheal]

I think we see an obvious early trend! But, the polls remain open...

[Freelancer]

I voted C. I like the design, but I must add I'm not a huge fan of the blue with green combo in tartans (unless relatively muted colors). I realize the symbolism behind those colors (green forests, blue waters), but I've heard the same reasons for other designs (New York City tartan with blue for the Hudson and green for Central Park). The fact is, any region, district, state or country could, having green grass/trees and blue waters make the same claim. So, it kind of looses it's meaning for any particular locale. Just my 2 cents.

[Woodsheal]

I voted C. I like the design, but I must add I'm not a huge fan of the blue with green combo in tartans (unless relatively muted colors). I realize the symbolism behind those colors (green forests, blue waters), but I've heard the same reasons for other designs (New York City tartan with blue for the Hudson and green for Central Park). The fact is, any region, district, state or country could, having green grass/trees and blue waters make the same claim. So, it kind of looses it's meaning for any particular locale. Just my 2 cents.

Well, that pretty much leaves you with red, purple, yellow, or black based tartans - none of which say "New York State" to me in any way....

[Brian K]

I voted C. I like the design, but I must add I'm not a huge fan of the blue with green combo in tartans (unless relatively muted colors). I realize the symbolism behind those colors (green forests, blue waters), but I've heard the same reasons for other designs (New York City tartan with blue for the Hudson and green for Central Park). The fact is, any region, district, state or country could, having green grass/trees and blue waters make the same claim. So, it kind of looses it's meaning for any particular locale. Just my 2 cents.

Freelancer,

I understand what you're saying entirely. To be honest, usually design a tartan using colors I want to work with and THEN I assign meanings to colors, and only when I think someone might expect there to be some meaning. I rarely work the other way around.

A came first and then I tried to give some meaning to the color choices because people seem to feel that that's part of tartan design. When I modified it to come up with B the only color I was thinking of was the gold - because it had been requested. When Amble modified one of my designs to come up with C she took an earlier design of mine she liked and then played with it a bit to fit in with what people were asking for.

Tartan designing is textile art rather than storytelling. I feel particular tartans have meaning because of what they are associated, not because of how they have been designed. There are many tartans I find a bit ...er...jarring, shall we say, but there are many people who love them because of what they are associated with. If there were already a New York tartan I'd probably feel an attachment to it because I've lived in New York for nearly 53 years and for no other reason.

All that being said, I also see no reason not to be concerned about what colors people want to see as long as the final choices are made because we think the colors work well together more than because we want a particular shade to be used.

Of course, all this will become academic when the weavers get their hands on it anyway. They'll work with what they have and their choices of particular shades and hues of blues and greens and whatever will be what we end up with. And let's not even get into distinctions between modern, ancient, weathered, muted and on and on.

Regards,

Brian