The Scots Have Influenced My Culture, What Do I Do?

[Bugbear]

Looking into this is a slow process for me, and I do not have a boat load of peer reviewed history books on my shelves to cite; they would actually be on my computer and on tape. As far as I can tell, the Scots have been influencing the development of American culture from times before the creation of the United States; this includes Arizona and the Southwest, U.S. where I live. There have also been threads on kilts being worn in early California, for example, though I gather it was not common.

Here is an example discussing the mixing of Scot and American cultures- Native American in this case: Scotland and the American Indians, on Electric Scotland

I realize part of this feeling is from the reactions to and discussion of people wearing their kilts backward with Viking helmets becoming an arms race between traditionalists and "wear-anything-you-want-ists." It would be ridiculous for me to tell Scots what your culture and traditions are. I sometimes get an uneasy feeling, though, that I aught not participate in Scottish discussions and events because I was not raised in the culture of Scotland, and that mixing of cultures is a "no no" to the Scots. It's just a feeling I keep getting from the forum, for example, the discussions of Highland games in the U.S. The thought sometimes comes up, in the back of my mind, maybe there aught not be Highland games in the U.S. because it isn't the Highlands and Scotland over here; on the other hand, Scots have had a significant influence on America, spawning mixed cultures here and probably all over the world.


What do the Scots of the forum make of this mixed culture that goes way, way back in my history?

I also welcome any discussion on the influence the Scots have had on Arizona and the Amarican Southwest.

[davedove]

There are lots of resources that describe the influence of Scots and those of Scottish ancestry on the development of the US. Of course, to expect any Highland traditions (or any other traditions) to remain distinct is to ask for disappointment. The US is built on the blending of traditions and cultures; anyone ever hear of the "melting pot".

The real problem comes when people think that the blended traditions are the same as the original. To think that highland games in the US are the same as those in Scotland is just misinformed and a bit foolish. Of course, there are a lot of misinformed and foolish people in the world.

Just as what many in the US think of as Italian food isn't really traditional Italian food, but rather a blend of Italian and the myriad other cultures encoutnered in the US, so too are the highland games a blend of the original concept along with other things.

[Bugbear]

Hmmm, Jock was talking about eating potatoes the other day...

[Bugbear]

At least I got it off my mind a bit. I think another difficulty I am having is with the constant mantra, "Americans don't have a culture," or sometimes "traditions," which is often being stated by an American. I have plenty of documentation, I guess personal experience doesn't count, showing otherwise, though it is usually regional, and some documentation showing it is partly influenced by Scots, which would be relevant to this thread. It's my understanding the Scots have regional, cultural traditions, too...

Hopefully, I have not "stepped in it," again, with this topic. I'm already on several people's "Lists." Oh well.

[Deil the Yin]

I smell what you're steppin' in there, Bugbear. A very poignant and profound topic in my opinion- I applaud your well-spoken effort to broach discussion. Unfortunately I have no other comment than: Guid on ye!

Cheers,
Wesley

At least I got it off my mind a bit. I think another difficulty I am having is with the constant mantra, "Americans don't have a culture," or sometimes "traditions," which is often being stated by an American. I have plenty of documentation, I guess personal experience doesn't count, showing otherwise, though it is usually regional, and some documentation showing it is partly influenced by Scots, which would be relevant to this thread. It's my understanding the Scots have regional, cultural traditions, too...

Hopefully, I have not "stepped in it," again, with this topic. I'm already on several people's "Lists." Oh well.

[Lachlan09]

There are lots of resources that describe the influence of Scots and those of Scottish ancestry on the development of the US. Of course, to expect any Highland traditions (or any other traditions) to remain distinct is to ask for disappointment. The US is built on the blending of traditions and cultures; anyone ever hear of the "melting pot".

The real problem comes when people think that the blended traditions are the same as the original. To think that highland games in the US are the same as those in Scotland is just misinformed and a bit foolish. Of course, there are a lot of misinformed and foolish people in the world.

Just as what many in the US think of as Italian food isn't really traditional Italian food, but rather a blend of Italian and the myriad other cultures encoutnered in the US, so too are the highland games a blend of the original concept along with other things.

As someone of Scottish nationality (yes, Scotland is a nation and has always been a constituent nation of the United Kingdom), I agree 100% with what you say and I see it as a positive point well made.

Americans are known for mixing, adopting and adapting to their needs and progressing their developing culture and that is healthy in any nation. To be stuck in a time-warp can only be detrimental to the original nation, what I would call the “Brigadoon Effect”. Long may the diaspora and well-wishers celebrate Scottishness in their own ways and I am very happy to see that people of other nations wish to even think of Scotland at all !

If you live in Scotland, it is go-ahead and I believe inclusive of incomers of all races, faiths and backgrounds, through my country tends to be a wee bit on the cold side for many. Most Scots don’t dwell in the past in some Celtic twilight (even Highlanders have a living to make in today’s cut-throat world) and in Scotland the Celtic-Culture Pandora’s Box is opened and controlled for festive times and does not control the population. It would be a sad day if Scotland believed all its publicity and became a pastiche and laughing-stock, a freaky, quaint tourist attraction.

So my message is “Go for it – if your kilt-socks (or hose) are lovat, purple, tartan, much-maligned-white or even polka-dot, if you wear a box-pleated travel-rug and a wide-wake hat - it doesn’t really matter – what matters is that you turned up on the day and thought Scotland is cool !”

Keep the faith !

[Bugbear]

Ehh, what can you do... I don't think I'm communicating very well. *sigh* I was actually a bit nervous about something forum related when I started this thread, but that has been cleared up.

I've started reading a book, Who Owns Native Culture?, by Michael F. Brown; Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2003. It doesn't talk about the Highlanders, but I can see how some of the issues discussed could apply; perhaps the weaving of tweed etc. Kind of complicated when, for example, an art style of a group has become intertwined with a region across several cultures. I suppose you could ask who does tweed or tartan, in general, belong to, or something like that.

I'll have to ponder it as I read on through the book.

[BoldHighlander]

At least I got it off my mind a bit. I think another difficulty I am having is with the constant mantra, "Americans don't have a culture," or sometimes "traditions," which is often being stated by an American. I have plenty of documentation, I guess personal experience doesn't count, showing otherwise, though it is usually regional, and some documentation showing it is partly influenced by Scots, which would be relevant to this thread. It's my understanding the Scots have regional, cultural traditions, too...

Hopefully, I have not "stepped in it," again, with this topic. I'm already on several people's "Lists." Oh well.

I hear you Ted...I have a "difficulty" too with that constant mantra.

And don't worry about "lists", I got your back!

[Bugbear]

Thanks, TERRY.

I decided to remove one of my posts over in Craig's Corner the evening before I started this thread because this discussion does not belong over there. I was trying to say that my cultural heritage does not come exclusively from, or is not limited to my genes. I have a right to the cultural heritage of where I grew up regardless of where my genes came from several generations back.

I do not think I should try to pretend to be a Scot because an ancestor lived in Scotland. However, it appears that the Scots have played some role in the development of the Southwest as it is today; and the Southwest has been a "melting pot" of cultures going back for a long, long time.

I do not see why I should put up with someone misinterpreting that as me saying that I do not care about where my ancestors originated.

Squash, beans, and maize are growing in my garden, BTW.

[Jock Scot]

Interesting thoughts Ted. Scotland is a wee small place when compared with the USA, for example and even in the last 1000 years we have our slightly different cultures of our past and areas mingling away and somehow we seem to get by pretty well these days. As your descendants in your young country will, in time. Modern travel, modern communications, education for all, will inevitably squeeze history and inevitably some of your countries past, and future no doubt, will take some getting used to, but in time(who knows when, but maybe a thousand years from now) you will have an American identity as firm as Scotland has now.

In other words, on the whole, we are happy with who we are in this part of the world----Scots.

When I was a wee lad I knew I was a Scot, yes wee Jock was happy with that. I knew what I was. Until I discovered that my ancestors were Norman, it took a few deep breaths and much checking to get the hang of that and it took more than a while, I can assure you. THEN my safe little world was turned upside down by discovering that even further back my ancestors probably came from Scandinavia. It took me a lot of time to sort that out !During WW2 I really had trouble with the fact that some of my ancestors were now the enemy, long gone but the enemy none the less. It took me, just me, a couple of decades to really be comfortable with it all.

So worry not, a young country like yours will take more than a wee while to really be comfortable with who you are. Who knows, by then, no one in your country will give a damn about clan tartans and Scotland and they will all be able to recognise your State tartans at a glance.All it needs is time. A lot of time.