M.H.Geoffrey & Co. Pipes - cheap tat or frightening value?

[English Bloke]

I began with a practice chanter. Not a particularly expensive one but certainly not cheap rubbish either. I did make sure that the tutorial book was one of the best on the market and that wasn't cheep either.

I explored the goose option (a pipe bag and chanter without drones) as my next step but figured it would be cheaper in the long run to go ahead and buy a reasonable set of full pipes.

It's a simple process to remove the drones and cork their stocks and you have a goose that transforms into proper pipes when you're ready. If you buy a goose first, you have to re-invest in pipes later.

Scott. Get a decent practice chanter and a manual and give it a bash. You'll love it honestly. It takes a few months to get proficient on the practice chanter anyway (particularly if you've got past experience with whistles and recorders, you have to unlearn all that muscle memory first). This gives you some time to save towards full highland pipes if the bug does bite you.

Gwaaaan... You know you want to!

[artificer]

...
Scott. Get a decent practice chanter and a manual and give it a bash. You'll love it honestly. It takes a few months to get proficient on the practice chanter anyway (particularly if you've got past experience with whistles and recorders, you have to unlearn all that muscle memory first). This gives you some time to save towards full highland pipes if the bug does bite you.

Gwaaaan... You know you want to!

I get into more trouble this way. You're NOT helping, John!

[OC Richard]

I guess what I'm asking is whether or not there is an affordable, entry level set of pipes (most likely import) or is one forced to buy-in at $600+US?

I've been playing the pipes for 35 years, and have had a lot of newbies come by the house with pipes they've picked up here and there, and tried to get all sorts of pipes going. I also check Ebay daily for vintage pipes.

Bottom line, avoid all Pakistani pipes like the plague. The only Pakistani pipes I've seen that worked at all were 1) the ones imported by the Florida company Mid East Manufacturing and 2) Hakam Din bagpipes (sold directly and by Scott Morton, thus sometimes sold as "Morton" bagpipes).

The drones on the above Pakistani bagpipes sort of play, but their tone and performance is not on the same page as ANY bagpipe made by ANY legitimate British or North American maker. I have never tried a pipe chanter by any Pakistani maker that worked in the least.

Many people have mentioned the wood, have mentioned Rosewood. Many Pakistani pipes are made out of horrid Sheesham wood which they often incorrectly label as "rosewood" or "cocus". It isn't either.

Many legitimate pipes have been made out of several varieties of actual Rosewood, which are great woods. Real cocus wood was the wood of choice of 19th century Scottish pipemakers but is rare and expensive now.

Several modern legitimate British and North American pipemakers are using Mopane and Cocobolo wood with great results.

Also, one sometimes encounters Pakistani pipes made of African Blackwood or Ebony. They don't play any better than any other Pakistani pipes, because it's not about the wood, it's about the internal dimensions of the bores, which the Pakistani makers never get right.

So... if you want to play pipes, you NEED to get pipes made by a legitimate North American or British maker. I won't wear a kilt or a sporran made in Pakistan because they don't look or perform like the real articles do, and the same is true of bagpipes. You're a great craftsman yourself! You have the "eye". You would be happiest with a set of bagpipes made by a like-minded craftsman, I think, someone like Rod MacLellan or Rick Pettigrew or Dave Atherton or Tim Gellaitry or Doug MacPherson.

Dunbar Bagpipes in Canada (Rick Pettigrew) and McCallum Bagpipes in Scotland both make pipes of "polypenco" (delrin). These look ugly but are affordable and play great.

But I would bite the bullet and buy a "real" set of pipes, a set made by a true craftsman in a fine wood like African Blackwood, Mopane, or Cocobolo.

The other option is buying an old set of fine British or North American pipes on Ebay. I see fine instruments going cheaply on Ebay nearly every day. You can get a very nice-sounding set of Scottish-made pipes, an old set made in the 1950's through 1980's, for around the $600 you mention. There are some up on Ebay right now- I just checked.

But have an experienced bagpipe person, someone good at identifying old pipes, shop with you as you browse Ebay! You'll learn a lot, and avoid the many pitfalls that await the ignorant.

For example there's a set now, which people are foolishly bidding on, which is being sold as an old Grainger set. Well, it's a cheap Pakistani set, made of Sheesham wood painted black, that happens to have a Grainger chanter stuck in it. I used to have a catalogue from a Pakistani pipemaker back in the 1980's, and these pipes, sheesham wood with aluminum mounts, sold NEW for $20 at that time. People have bid this set up well over $200! And it's not as if an old Grainger chanter is worth that much either.

So the options are:

For good pipes in the $600 range, you'll have to go with old pipes, nickle and/or imitation ivory, on Ebay or whatever.

For good-sounding new pipes in the $800 range you'll have to get Polypenco pipes from Dunbar or McCallum.

For new good wood pipes you'll have to pay $1000.

Check out Piper's Hut. They have the best prices on things. See what legitimate pipes by Dunbar, McLellan, Gibson, McCallum, Hardie/Henderons/St Kilda, etc etc are going for.

[OC Richard]

OK, I was just now looking at pipes on Ebay and a new set of McCallums in polypenco is around $600. Unattractive to my eye, but good-sounding real pipes.

There's an amazing value, a set of Duncan Soutar pipes for $500 with no bids! Soutar is one of the current fine craftsmen making pipes one at a time.

And today 14 Sept a set of old Grainger & Campbell pipes for a bit over $500.

Why people, every day, pay more than that for Pakistani rubbish, I don't understand.

[JerseyLawyer]

Don't want to deviate too much from the original question but was wondering if they offer a "goose" that you can buy and use the chanter to start out with then switch to the full goose to play? Kinda a start up kit that gets you going for the first year or two till you are ready to step up to actual set of pipes.

The goose is little used these days, from what I've seen. But there are a few ways to make one. The easiest, if you already have pipes, is to cork the drone stocks, and either just play the pipe chanter or hemp the heck out of your practice chanter. Otherwise, it's just a pipe bag with only a blowstick and chanter stock.

Back to the original question - pipes made of rosewood are almost guaranteed to be disappointing, and Pakistani "blackwood" is often some kind of wood painted black. I realize that expense can be an issue, but we're talking about a musical instrument here, and you are much better served buying a single, even entry-level, set from a reputable maker than trying to get by "on the cheap" and spending more money in the long run. Most Pakistani pipes, I'm afraid, are good only for nailing above the fireplace. Kindly put the nails directly through the drones.

Not only do you get what you pay for with pipes, but, again as with many things, there is no substitute for knowing what you're looking at. Take an experienced piper with you, or ask your instructor (you should have one) for advice. But if you're interested in playing the pipes, you won't need pipes for six months or so. And chanters are reasonably inexpensive.

I'll stop now, or I'll get on some of my hobby horses, and that's not a good thing.

[Porloff94]

suitable for over the fireplace, or more so, in the fireplace.

[JerseyLawyer]

And today 14 Sept a set of old Grainger & Campbell pipes for a bit over $500.

Ah, Grainger and Campbell. I inherited my set from my father, they are his vintage 1970. He replaced them with a set of 1910 Lawrie's, and my brother got my Gillanders and McCleod. ;p

Lovely pipes. Weigh a bloody ton, though. They didn't skimp on the aged blackwood back in the day.