Irish Saffron Kilt

[Tairdhealbhach]

This is another one of Michael Wright's portraits - see that of Lord Mungo Murray in other threads, and cannot be taken as in any way an accurate depiction of contemporary dress. He was renowned for pre-painting heroic type portraits and adding the face of the sitter at a later date. They were a sort of political/cultural statement rather than an attempt to record history.

This painting is not at that inconsistent at all with this woodcut from 100 years earlier in 1580, compare the following:

[figheadair]

Ditto

[Dale Seago]

In this painting is Colonel Niall O Neill, a Jacobite veteran of the Battle of the Boyne, wearing a traditional brat with the year given as 1680.

Interesting to also see the Japanese presentation armor set. And the Irish colonel is also wearing what looks more like a Scottish dirk than the rather similar Irish scian (or skean):

http://www.myarmoury.com/nateb_dagg_ia_skean.html?3

[Woodsheal]

Well the kilt is a modern adaptation of the breacanbhrait and not the léine, which has been replaced by the modern collared shirt early on in Scotland. So if there is to be a modern adaptation of the léine then I think it would be more correct to be a full tunic, but if there is to be a transpositioning of the arrange of the brat as a kilt than it why not use the brat in a skirt form with a hanging shoulder piece? The léine as a skirt makes absolutely no sense.

I don't understand what you're asking. Are you suggesting a more "Irish" version of the modern kilt, based upon the brat, as opposed to the highland belted plaid?
Interesting notion, but the kilt in modern (current) times is what it is (and besides, the brat was never worn pleated about the upper legs, being a fairly simple mantle).
Don't get me wrong - I love "period" clothes! But the brat, along with the belted plaid, has been pretty much relegated to the realm of historic costume, not part of current highland (or Celtic, for that matter) dress.
The kilt has achieved a measure of "Irishness" via a century or more of wear, and distinctive colors (including saffron) and tartans - even though it's basic configuration remains highland Scots. I'm doubtful the idea of a newly designed "Irish" kilt would fly....

[BoldHighlander]

In this painting is Colonel Niall O Neill, a Jacobite veteran of the Battle of the Boyne, wearing a traditional brat with the year given as 1680.

This is another one of Michael Wright's portraits - see that of Lord Mungo Murray in other threads, and cannot be taken as in any way an accurate depiction of contemporary dress. He was renowned for pre-painting heroic type portraits and adding the face of the sitter at a later date. They were a sort of political/cultural statement rather than an attempt to record history.

Interesting to also see the Japanese presentation armor set.

This painting would most certainly be a romanticized portrait, as the subject is wearing a costume reminiscent of that worn by Thomas Lee (1594) in his portrait painted by Marcus Gheeraerts, not to mention the Japanese armor (nice catch!).

It certainty is not the fashion worn in 1680 or at the Battle of the Boyne!

[Tairdhealbhach]

I don't understand what you're asking. Are you suggesting a more "Irish" version of the modern kilt, based upon the brat, as opposed to the highland belted plaid?
Interesting notion, but the kilt in modern (current) times is what it is (and besides, the brat was never worn pleated about the upper legs, being a fairly simple mantle).
Don't get me wrong - I love "period" clothes! But the brat, along with the belted plaid, has been pretty much relegated to the realm of historic costume, not part of current highland (or Celtic, for that matter) dress.
The kilt has achieved a measure of "Irishness" via a century or more of wear, and distinctive colors (including saffron) and tartans - even though it's basic configuration remains highland Scots. I'm doubtful the idea of a newly designed "Irish" kilt would fly....

I'm suggesting is that people of Irish descent can wear the belted plaid as a part of their heritage just as legitimately as the Highland Scots can, since some Irish brats were tartans. The brat survived in Ireland long after the traditional léine left both sides of the Gaelosphere. But the idea of skirting the léine seems preposterous, if we want to bring back the léine to modern times, why not do it the right way? Let's make saffron robes pleated from the waist, and collared at the neck. Upon which we may wear an updated ionar, which would consist of a modern waiscoat. Under the léine we might wear trews, and on the feet ghillies or pampooties.

[Tairdhealbhach]

This painting would most certainly be a romanticized portrait, as the subject is wearing a costume reminiscent of that worn by Thomas Lee (1594) in his portrait painted by Marcus Gheeraerts, not to mention the Japanese armor (nice catch!).

It certainty is not the fashion worn in 1680 or at the Battle of the Boyne!

Yes a romanticized version but a version nonetheless. It is interesting to note that the Irish aristocracy abandoned the léine before the other classes did, in favor of a more mainland European type of tunic. What they did hold onto was the brat, and I believe that the brat was held onto for several centuries in Ireland after the Elizabethan era.

[Tairdhealbhach]

Ditto

Ditto meaning you agree, or Ditto meaning that you think that both pieces are inaccurate in regards to Irish dress?

[Bugbear]

All classes wore a léine which means tunic/shirt, the aristocrats wore a long one, and kerns wore short ones.

Oh, sorry. I wasn't trying to make a point of that, rather that the trews were worn. Just trying to reference the part of the article I was reading. It said the trews were not worn with the leine, if I remember correctly.

I only know what I read in Matt's article.

[BoldHighlander]

Yes a romanticized version but a version nonetheless.

The problem is that if its from 1680 then its at least 100 years after this fashion would've been in style.

I would prefer a contemporary /eyewitness example. I've got a couple of books with period woodcuts from the 1500's with what are reputed to be a few "eyewitness" renditions of Irish / Scottish dress. Perhaps I'll scan them later & post them here.

What they did hold onto was the brat, and I believe that the brat was held onto for several centuries in Ireland after the Elizabethan era.

Not that I'm doubting you, but do you have any evidence to back up your belief? And how many is "several"?