Which Clan?

[rondo]

My grandfather [father's father], a Scot, changed his surname when he came the the United States, the original surname is forever lost. My Grandmother's [father's mother] maiden name was Dunbar so I wear that tartan and I identify with Clan Dunbar. To be sure, and as a matter of respect and proper protocol, I did write to Clan Dunbar and did obtain permission from James Mattern the current Clan Dunbar Chieftan to ensure that my Dunbar affiliation would be accepted and acceptable the Clan.

Rondo

[Andy Proffitt]

My Mother was born in Scotland and told us we were of the Clan Buchanan (through the matrilineal line of Watt). My father was a Yorkshireman with an Irish surname.
But you didn't argue with my Mother. :-)

Best reasoning I have ever heard.

[eagle43172]

One of my dad's cousins traced my Chambers family tree back to an Scottish officer in the Protestant army of William III who as a veteran of the Irish campaign was given Irish land and a minor title. His sons came to the new world and that's how the family got here. The books say Chambers is a Clan Cameron name so I wear Cameron, although my ancestors didn't really come from Cameron land. This is one reason why I don't take the geneological part of American Scottishness too seriously. (BTW my mom was a Cunningham)

[Drac]

I work with two clans assoc. One is Gordon through my maternal g-g-grandmother, a Steele. The other is Lamont.

They are the first one I started working with when I met them at a festival. After working with them for a year or so I found out that my father didn't even know his mother's maiden name, which I was told was White, was Green. Slight difference. The White turns out to be my great-grandmother, Whiten. Again slight difference.

By than the assoc decided they were going to keep me.

Jim

[SlackerDrummer]

@Jock Scott: What do folks in Scotland do when they do not have a surname that lines up with a clan name? I understand Mr. MacOnion (or Mr. Onion for that matter) wearing a MacOnion tartan. I'm more interested in which clan Mr. Potato (where no Clan MacPotato exists) associates, if any. Or do they simply not associate with a clan? Also, what (based on your experience, as I know you cannot speak for the whole of Scotland) is the participation of Scots in clan associations? Or is simply being a MacOnion enough? I suspect that most clan associations are fueled by people outwith Scotland with Scottish roots or ex-pats, but I'd hate to jump to conclusions there.

As to which tartan, that was easy for me. I think all of my family lines save one or two have been documented as being here in the American colonies prior to the Revolution, and most of them in the Carolinas. Those last few are not documented and so far there are no lines that are documented as being somewhere other than the colonies at any point after the Revolution. I honor all of my Scottish ancestors collectively by wearing the Carolina tartan, the district to which they emigrated.

Right now I'm interested in clan affiliations as it regards to participation in a society, not the wearing of tartans. I don't have the financial wherewithal to join the society for every Scottish ancestor and I'm trying to pare down my options.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

(Still waiting to hear from Kyle Smith and David Pope.)

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

In agreement with what Jock has written, I will add that from the heraldic standpoint of "tartan inheritance" (as opposed to any sort of genetic/DNA inheritance) one would usually assume the named tartan of their nearest Scottish ancestor, whether that was in the paternal or maternal line. So, if you go back two generations on your mother's side before you reach a Scottish ancestor, but have to go back six on your father's side, then you would most likely adopt the tartan that first occurs in the maternal line. It is this practice that has led to the concept of "wearing your mother's tartan" if there is no clan tartan associated with your surname.

Now, that said, because this is a matter of assuming, rather than inheriting, a tartan there is no legal reason why you couldn't adopt a tartan from the paternal line. If you did, you would be taking the position that however many generations ago your male ancestor became, through marriage, a member of Clan X, accepted the Clan X tartan as his, and that that "sense" of being a member of Clan X has passed down, through the generations, to yourself.

Personally, unless one has a "by blood" or "by adoption" connection to a specific clan I would advise against indiscriminately choosing a clan tartan merely on the basis of "Gee, that looks nice". Likewise, in total agreement with Jock, I would suggest that once you determine your Clan affiliation, you stick with it, to the exclusion of all others.

In the Bible it says, "You can not serve two masters and love them both" and in those places where the wearing of tartan has meaning, wearing more than one clan tartan definitely sends the same message.

[macwilkin]

In agreement with what Jock has written, I will add that from the heraldic standpoint of "tartan inheritance" (as opposed to any sort of genetic/DNA inheritance) one would usually assume the named tartan of their nearest Scottish ancestor, whether that was in the paternal or maternal line. So, if you go back two generations on your mother's side before you reach a Scottish ancestor, but have to go back six on your father's side, then you would most likely adopt the tartan that first occurs in the maternal line. It is this practice that has led to the concept of "wearing your mother's tartan" if there is no clan tartan associated with your surname.

Now, that said, because this is a matter of assuming, rather than inheriting, a tartan there is no legal reason why you couldn't adopt a tartan from the paternal line. If you did, you would be taking the position that however many generations ago your male ancestor became, through marriage, a member of Clan X, accepted the Clan X tartan as his, and that that "sense" of being a member of Clan X has passed down, through the generations, to yourself.

Personally, unless one has a "by blood" or "by adoption" connection to a specific clan I would advise against indiscriminately choosing a clan tartan merely on the basis of "Gee, that looks nice". Likewise, in total agreement with Jock, I would suggest that once you determine your Clan affiliation, you stick with it, to the exclusion of all others.

In the Bible it says, "You can not serve two masters and love them both" and in those places where the wearing of tartan has meaning, wearing more than one clan tartan definitely sends the same message.

The right honourable delegate from Missouri seconds Rathdown's post...

T.

[Jock Scot]

SlackerDrummer.

I know many proud Scots, me included, that have no Scots sounding name, so on the face of it we don't have a tartan to align to.Many of my ancestors hail from Normandy. In my case, I can find a good reason,should I care to look, to wear the tartan that I and my ancestors have worn and no doubt there are many Scots in my position.One must not forget that the locals, in my case, know exactly who my ancestors were and that situation goes back a few hundred years for me. Likewise I know the ancestry of many of the locals too!

There are others with no Scots sounding name without an "official" tartan to their name. They,and or their ancestors have picked a Clan tartan and now have, for whatever reason, a tartan and may have had for many generations----or 5 minutes. District tartans are almost unknown in modern(certainly 70 years past) Scotland and I know few(any) that have chosen a tartan from that option. Perhaps they should, but they don't.

In either case, no one ever asks and no one ever explains and the system works perfectly as long as, I suppose, you stick to one tartan. No one is, frankly, interested who, when and why your GGGGG Aunt's cousin's cousin moved from Skye to the Black Isle. Unless genealogy happens to be your thing ,or,the family bible has not been lost, we just accept the tartan that is being worn as "his" tartan, end of story.

So if "Chuck Jones from Texas" takes up residence in Oban and wanders down the High Street wearing his MacOnion tartan kilt--properly--- as far as the locals are concerned that is "Chuck's" tartan . There is nothing more to be said.

Clan societies do exist in Scotland, but I don't know of any one who troubles with them seriously, unless you are a Clan Chief needing a new roof on the castle, that is. If you think about it once the tartan has been chosen why bother with any other Clan or Clan society?

[SlackerDrummer]

My surname, I'm pretty sure is English or Irish. As luck would have it, that is one of the lines only documented (to date) back to the early 1800s.

My mother's paternal grandmother was an Ivester, descending from Hugh Isbister who came over from Orkney, which could provide a Sinclair connection. And my mother's maternal grandmother was an Austin, so far traced only to Ireland but pretty sure they are Scots-Irish.

Going further back there are several more Scots, but these two are the closest and are both a big part of our family lore.

Well, you all have given me food for thought. Thanks again.

[McElmurry]

You might also consider a Celtic Association if you have one locally.

I am not imbedding the picture because it comes in huge but here is a link.


http://www.nevadacountycelticclub.or...Burns%2010.jpg