Which Clan?

[Lyle1]

Personally, unless one has a "by blood" or "by adoption" connection to a specific clan I would advise against indiscriminately choosing a clan tartan merely on the basis of "Gee, that looks nice". Likewise, in total agreement with Jock, I would suggest that once you determine your Clan affiliation, you stick with it, to the exclusion of all others.

In the Bible it says, "You can not serve two masters and love them both" and in those places where the wearing of tartan has meaning, wearing more than one clan tartan definitely sends the same message.

I understand the sentiment, but I suppose it really depends on what being affiliated with a clan means to you. Being American bred and reared, I don't personally feel that I "belong" to any clan. I have blood ties to well over a dozen clans, and I might sort it all out if I lived in Scotland, but I am an American, not a Scot. Since I am not ruled by a clan or its chief, the subject of clan affiliation has little relevance to me.

I feel an emotional attachment the the Clan Stewart, because of my paternal grandfather, who was born in Scotland, and with whom I was quite close as a child. If I were to wear a tartan associated with the clan of my mother's surname, it would be to honor the memory of my mother, not to honor one clan over another.

I do not feel beholden to or feel that I serve any clan, nor do I feel obliged to limit my sentimental attachment to any clan to which my ancestors belonged. The Scottish culture is part of my heritage, and I will revel in it, but I will not be ruled by it, any more than I would be ruled by or forsake the cultures of any of the more than a dozen other nationalities of my ancestors in order to honor only one!

It is not all about rules for me. It is, rather, about including something in my life that I like and that has some meaning for me, and to do that I am the only person who has to be happy with my choices.

[Singlemalt]

I agree that way too much is made of this Clan affiliation stuff. I grew up with a Scottish grandparents on my fathers side (Thomson) who emigrated to Canada in 1919, with five children, from a small village outside Inverness. My mothers family was in Canada much longer but from Cape Breton Nova Scotia and were Kerrs, MacLeods, MacNiels and Camerons, many of them native Gaelic speakers. In my rural Canadian home there was no doubt our family was Scottish (we would have said Scotch) however I recall no discussion of any affiliation with any Scottish Clan. We were just who we were, Scotch Canadians.

I wear Thomson tartan because it matches my surname however it is not very historic. I understand it was designed by Lord Thomson of Fleet, another Canadian of Scottish background in the 1950's. Certainly many of the families on my mothers side had a longer and more iconic Highland history but when I wear my kilt my tartan, matches my name, and it saves a hell of a lot of explaining.

I am new to the forum but perhaps a subject worth discussing is the whole subject of Scots, Scottish, Scotch?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I understand the sentiment, but I suppose it really depends on what being affiliated with a clan means to you. Being American bred and reared, I don't personally feel that I "belong" to any clan. I have blood ties to well over a dozen clans, and I might sort it all out if I lived in Scotland, but I am an American, not a Scot. Since I am not ruled by a clan or its chief, the subject of clan affiliation has little relevance to me.

Since, as you say, you are an American, and you don't "belong" to any clan, and since clan affiliation has little relevance to you, why do you choose to dress as a Highland Scot, but ignore the cultural nuances associated with the wearing of tartan? Or have I misinterpreted what you have posted?

[Lyle1]

Since, as you say, you are an American, and you don't "belong" to any clan, and since clan affiliation has little relevance to you, why do you choose to dress as a Highland Scot, but ignore the cultural nuances associated with the wearing of tartan? Or have I misinterpreted what you have posted?

Yes, I think you have misinterpreted what I wrote.

Whatever it means to you, clan affiliation will never be anything more than an abstract idea for me; I will probably never meet a clan chief, and I know that I will never owe allegiance to one. The idea that my Scottish ancestors were members of clans (and often fought one another because of it) is meaningful to me, but not in a way that will change my life. If clan affiliation means more to you, enjoy it.

I emphatically do not choose to dress as a highland Scot. I do choose to sometimes wear a kilt and other accessories, just as I sometimes wear green on St. Patrick's Day to honor my Irish ancestry, or wear red to a St. Joseph's Table, as some of my Italian ancestors did.

I do not ignore the cultural nuances. I adapt traditions from my ancestral heritage so they might be compatible with my fairly typical American lifestyle. Immigrants to this country have always adapted their cultures in order to continue in some way the observance of their traditions in a land that did not offer the same climate, the same foods, or the same social conventions or tolerance that they remembered from their homelands. For many it was a choice of adapting a tradition or losing it. Indeed, many of the traditions that I learned from my family were not passed unchanged from the lands of their origins. As a member of an ethnic organization, I recently helped plan a traditional observance that none of our members had ever planned, though they knew that their grandparents had. We found plenty of consistent historical references as to how the event was traditionally observed in the country of its origin. However, the references relating to how the event has been observed in America over the last 100+ years evidenced much more variety in how the tradition has been interpreted and enacted. We choose those practices that best met our needs and that would reflect a range of the traditions that our various members remembered, however dimly, and we had a very enjoyable and memorable evening. As a result, the core traditions of the observance will live in our member's memories for at least one more generation.

There is no one proper way to show respect for the culture of Scotland or any nation. Each of us can and must choose the ways that are both meaningful and doable for ourselves. To argue that there is only one way to honor the memory of the clans is about as sensible and meaningful as arguing about white kilt hose.

[Joshua]

Generally speaking in Scotland, as you were asking, if your surname is for example, "MacOnion" then you wear that tartan. Other than that you wear ONE tartan that you or your ancestors have chosen and that is it. It would most certainly raise an eyebrow if you as a "MacOnion" were wearing a "MacCarrot" tartan without a very good reason, and there are a few of those. If you are a member of a Pipe Band is one, your regimental tartan is another.

As we are a relatively small and close knit community, particularly in the Highlands, any variation from the tartan you normally wear is noticed. I might add that moving from "ancient" colours to say "weathered" is also noticed,noted,but never commented on by anyone other than the closest of closest family. It would just be assumed that you had more money than sense.Just so you know, ostentation, giving a perception of wealth is best avoided in the Highlands and even wealthy Dukes, for example, are sensitive to this and the "bells and whistles" are kept for very special occasions.

As many of you have noticed, generally speaking we in Scotland do not have many kilts(each) and those we have are rarely of a different tartan.We really don't go in for all this deep and meaningful ancestry bit too justify which tartan we wear and no one will want and sit and listen to a two hour lecture on justifying your choice of tartan.We wear the tartan we do and that is readily accepted by all and we do not expect to change from it.Why should we? People do, incomers invariably, and I am afraid they get stuck with the poser label.

Great post as always. Now you've given me some food for thought, as I have traced my paternal lineage to an Urquhart and several MacIntyres and McKayes - but my surname is Davis... (Granted, my father was adopted by his maternal uncle and was raised with the maiden name of his mother).

The tartan you see in my avatar is Davidson - although as of my most recent digging I've found my "old world" ancestor to be one David Ap Ieuen, a Welshie in the 1660's who had many children in his homeland, all of which anglicized their surnames to "Davis".

I've been torn. Do I raise my son to wear the Davidon tartan, knowing full well that the "Davis" line of my family is about as Scottish as Chopsticks? Or do I wear the Saint David's Tartan of Wales and enjoy the fact that I am 1) Acknowledging my genealogy, and 2) Still enjoying wearing the kilt?

[SlackerDrummer]

Jock Scott,

In rereading the thread, and your input particularly, I think I've figured out that this decision has already been made for me. When I got married, the men in the wedding party (including me) wore rental kilt outfits in Scottish National. My mother, however, wore a silk a-line skirt in the MacRae Hunting tartan (the mother of the Austin I mentioned earlier in this thread was a Rea). It would seem the precedent has been set.

[McElmurry]

Jock Scott,

In rereading the thread, and your input particularly, I think I've figured out that this decision has already been made for me. When I got married, the men in the wedding party (including me) wore rental kilt outfits in Scottish National. My mother, however, wore a silk a-line skirt in the MacRae Hunting tartan (the mother of the Austin I mentioned earlier in this thread was a Rea). It would seem the precedent has been set.

Dodged a bullet there. MacRae Hunting is a realy nice tartan.

At least it wasn't MacOnion.

[ThistleDown]

Great post as always. Now you've given me some food for thought, as I have traced my paternal lineage to an Urquhart and several MacIntyres and McKayes - but my surname is Davis... (Granted, my father was adopted by his maternal uncle and was raised with the maiden name of his mother).

The tartan you see in my avatar is Davidson - although as of my most recent digging I've found my "old world" ancestor to be one David Ap Ieuen, a Welshie in the 1660's who had many children in his homeland, all of which anglicized their surnames to "Davis".

I've been torn. Do I raise my son to wear the Davidon tartan, knowing full well that the "Davis" line of my family is about as Scottish as Chopsticks? Or do I wear the Saint David's Tartan of Wales and enjoy the fact that I am 1) Acknowledging my genealogy, and 2) Still enjoying wearing the kilt?

Yes, that kind of thing happens frequently, Joshua. I think it a shame that the name-reiver lists of the 19C are still touted as real after so many proofs against them. Be that as it may, you are descended from a Welshman with the superb surname "Davis". Be proud of it and know for certain that your Davis ancestors did not wear the Davidson tartan.

If you wish to continue to wear Highland dress, however, and to promote its wearing wih some familial attachment in your own family, you might want to contact Urquhart of Urquhart. Or you could wear the ne Welsh tartan.

Unlike Jock who is a Highland resident but doesn't bear a Highland surname, I wear Davidson because that is my name. The tartan Jock does wear has a different family connection for him than his surname, as will yours if you cheose Urquhart, but if he didn't have that connection he could look to the district in which he lives and wear the Lochaber with some degree of comfort.

In my case (again) I also wear the tartans of the Mackintosh and Clan Chattan because of my place of residency in Scotland (and family connections), and the Maple Leaf due to my Canadian residency.

It`s not as confusing as it all seems, in other words.

As for Clan Associations there are many in Scotland, all of them connected to clan chiefs and their families. I can`t think of a single example of a bunch of MacOnions going out and forming their own association without the active support of Hamish MacOnion of that Ilk. I guess the real reason for that is that we live our heritage on a daily basis, not just at the weekend.

Rex

[McElmurry]

As for Clan Associations there are many in Scotland, all of them connected to clan chiefs and their families. I can`t think of a single example of a bunch of MacOnions going out and forming their own association without the active support of Hamish MacOnion of that Ilk. I guess the real reason for that is that we live our heritage on a daily basis, not just at the weekend.

Rex

So none of the armigerous (cheifless) clans have associations in Scottland?

When you live in a swirling cultural mosaic of 300 million people it takes a little organization to find likeminded people who want to preserve a particular aspect of your heritage. Someone has to keep the mailing list and organize get togethers. And if there hasn't been a Hamish MacOnion for 300 years that certainly isn't going to stop the MacOnions of North American from getting together for a potluck.

[The Thirsty Viking]

So none of the armigerous (cheifless) clans have associations in Scottland?

Speaking of which - My wearing of the Stewart tartan comes from my grandfather. He actually has no idea who his real father was because, well lets just say that Great grandma was a bad girl. When he was 5 or 6, he was adopted by a man who marred g-grandma, with the surname of Freer who wore a Stewart tartan. Shortly after they moved to the States. Mr. Freer died when Grandpa was 12. Grandpa doesnt really know much about the man who raised him for that short bit of his life, But has worn the Stewart tartan since and passed it to his sons and grandsons.

I have worn that tartan exclusively my whole life. I am no geneologist, and quite frankly, there isnt much to go on, so I continue to wear that tartan. I have had people try to challenge me saying I "shouldnt" be wearing it, or that I could never join the Stewart Society because I cant trace it back and blah blah blah, but really, that doesnt matter to me. I take what little spare time I have to try and learn the history of the Stewarts, and I wear the tartan more in respect to my beloved Grandfather.

And should someone ever have cross words to say to me on the subject, I
got a Doc Marten Dental Plan with their name on it. :buttkick: