White Cockade

[macwilkin]

In looking back at my most recent post, I failed to explain that there are several "Jacobite" societies at present that do recognize Franz's claim to the Jacobite throne, although the Duke of Bavaria himself has not made any claim on that of his ancestors. Members of these organizations, such as the Royal Stuart Society, might choose to wear the white cockade as a symbolism of their personal beliefs.

A number of years ago I was a member of the Society of Charles the Martyr, an Anglican devotional society to the martyred Charles Stuart. The society's tie featured a Jacobite white rose, which the cockade symbolises. When I attended a Mass honouring the Martyred Charles, I wore a white cockade on my bonnet.


T.

[RussellSm]

I encourage you all to read the poem below.

THE CONQUERED BANNER
by Abram Joseph Ryan
(1838-1886)

Furl that Banner, for 'tis weary;
Round its staff 'tis drooping dreary;
Furl it, fold it, it is best;
For there's not a man to wave it,
And there's not a sword to save it,
And there's no one left to lave it
In the blood that heroes gave it;
And its foes now scorn and brave it;
Furl it, hide it--let it rest!

Take that banner down! 'tis tattered;
Broken is its shaft and shattered;
And the valiant hosts are scattered
Over whom it floated high.
Oh! 'tis hard for us to fold it;
Hard to think there's none to hold it;
Hard that those who once unrolled it
Now must furl it with a sigh.

Furl that banner! furl it sadly!
Once ten thousands hailed it gladly.
And ten thousands wildly, madly,
Swore it should forever wave;
Swore that foeman's sword should never
Hearts like theirs entwined dissever,
Till that flag should float forever
O'er their freedom or their grave!

Furl it! for the hands that grasped it,
And the hearts that fondly clasped it,
Cold and dead are lying low;
And that Banner--it is trailing!
While around it sounds the wailing
Of its people in their woe.

For, though conquered, they adore it!
Love the cold, dead hands that bore it!
Weep for those who fell before it!
Pardon those who trailed and tore it!
But, oh! wildly they deplored it!
Now who furl and fold it so.

Furl that Banner! True, 'tis gory,
Yet 'tis wreathed around with glory,
And 'twill live in song and story,
Though its folds are in the dust;
For its fame on brightest pages,
Penned by poets and by sages,
Shall go sounding down the ages--
Furl its folds though now we must.

Furl that banner, softly, slowly!
Treat it gently--it is holy--
For it droops above the dead.
Touch it not--unfold it never,
Let it droop there, furled forever,
For its people's hopes are dead!

[cavscout]

No one likes a quitter

[Mark E.]

I have found myself similarily conflicted with regard to historical accuracy...My folks backed King James first, in the 1715 Rising...I am attempting to adapt into an early 1700-1730's Jacobite role, and,well, the white rose/cocade that became symbolic to later Jacobite eras wasn't exactly existing then.

Mark

"God save King James!"
(he needs all the help he can get!)

[Ancienne Alliance]

Let's keep this thread clean and away from politics, gentlemen.

This is a place to talk about all the 'stuff' that can go with the Kilt.

If you just can't help yourself, I'm afraid I'll have to close it.


Thank you,

Robert

[Chas]

Let's keep this thread clean and away from politics, gentlemen.

This is a place to talk about all the 'stuff' that can go with the Kilt.

If you just can't help yourself, I'm afraid I'll have to close it.


Thank you,

Robert

With all respect, Robert, how can anyone discuss the white cockade without discussing politics? It is after all a political and religious symbol. We are not discussing blue cockades, or red, or green, or saffron, or any other colour in the spectrum. We are specifically discussing white cockades.

There are members who will wear it as a fashion item and those who wear it as a statement and those who wear it because they think is Scottish and they have to wear it. But regardless of knowledge or ignorance, the wearing of the white cockade is making a political statement.

To answer the OP's question. I see the white cockade as a Jacobite symbol and a Roman Catholic symbol. I will not wear one.

Regards

Chas

[Woodsheal]

I wear one when in my reenactor role as a 1745 Jacobite. I don't wear one with any present-day highland dress, as I think current "Jacobite" efforts are a tad on the silly/bizarre/bogus side.

This thread can only descend into a political morass...!

[Jack Daw]

I wear one when in my reenactor role as a 1745 Jacobite. I don't wear one with any present-day highland dress, as I think current "Jacobite" efforts are a tad on the silly/bizarre/bogus side.

This thread can only descend into a political morass...!

Ditto.

[Ancienne Alliance]

It's one thing to say: The cockade is a political and religious symbol; period.
This is info. Fair enough. And it's a whole other story to gives one's personnal comments and feelings about it...
So we should not "discuss the white cockade". Just give neutral encyclopedic information.
Otherwise it can very quickly degenerate into a heated debate . I'm sure this is obvious and very clear. There are many other places for this on the Internet. Not here, gentlemen.

Thank you,


Best,

Robert

[Calico]

I'd like to expand on my previous post and say that until this thread I had never heard of a white cockade having significance of any kind.

I doubt if one in 10,000 are aware of it in Europe, the Americas and NZ/Australia. Far fewer anywhere else.

It is silly to say it is a political or religious symbol to anyone other than those few who recognize it as such.