TRADITION: let's (re)define it.

[Jock Scot]

Right you are Jock. They were just goofing around there. But, I have seen them dressed in black T-shirts, leather vests, big black boots, and their favorite Kilt.

Make no mistake, I am all for a spot of "goofing around"!

[Tobus]

Well the forum heading already has the word "Highland" in it...

True. I wasn't speaking so much about the forum header, but just our everyday use of the term "traditional". I think it just gets a lot clearer when we use phrases like THCD or Highland tradition or whatever. As long as everyone is on the same page with "traditional" meaning "Scottish traditional", we needn't quibble about minutiae.

[BruceBC]

100 years from now someone will find an image of me wearing a kilt, work boots, socks pushed down, a hoody and a baseball cap. This look will then be referred to as traditional ;). Many a Scottish history grad student will be writing about the "newvo-trad" look.

ps - I hope I just coined a phrase to be used by future academics.


.... the following is to be read in 2111.....


(PPS..if you are reading this 100 years from now good luck with your dissertation , don't forget to cite me, and there is a chance I am still alive, in a retirement home, having an active sex life - feel free to find and interview me)

[Cowher]

Using that illustration of the suit: if you did wear a suit from the 30's it would be dated. If you wore a suit from the 1970's it would be dated and in 20 years Tge suits that are all the rage today will look dated. But they are all suits. They are still the standard for office types.
If you wore a kilt outfit from the time of the undoing of the highland dress act you would look dated. And on and on. But it's still semi formal kilt attire.
I have issue with the way kilted style is described here. To me it is:
Traditional highland dress = classic kilt wear
Modern kilt wear = casual kilt wear

[Lime]

Isn’t “tradition” just something you do twice?

I consider “tradition in dress” to be dress which is within the "accepted norm" while “modern” pushes that accepted norm in some new way.

It does not help that the "accepted norm" constantly shifts over time and in different places. For instance the ubiquitous button down collar may be within the accepted norm for American business wear whereas in the UK a button down shirt in the office may cause the senior partner to choke on his cucumber and Marmite sandwiches! Likewise that same senior partner may be wearing a traditional English shirt, handmade on Jermyn street, but with a breast pocket (shock horror!) which would have made his senior partner go into a tirade about the youth of today before seating himself on his clay trap and shouting "pull"!

[Drac]

Can't there a differerance between traditional and right/good looking?

US Navy dress white uniforms are traditional but they are anything but nice looking in my opinion. Polyester bell bottoms aren't my style.

I've seen some of those opictures that have been posted of Victorian wear, which I would quess would be traditional, but I would never go that far as some of those. I am still wondering how they were able to walk.

Jim

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Some people seem to want to equate modern kilt wear (i.e. "non-traditional") with "casual" kilt wear, but I would strongly disagree. This implies that the kilt was never worn except for formal occasions. But remember there was a time when the kilt was the regular day-to-day mode of dress for the Highland male.

There is nothing formal about these photos, yet I would argue they represent traditional kilt wear.












In light of this fact, I think when one wears the kilt in a contemporary, casual fashion, one is being very traditional. I tend to define "traditional" as any manner of wearing the kilt that stems organically from the tradition of Highland dress that comes before it. I would define as "non-traditional" any style of kilt-like garment that originates independently, or a style that pointedly departs from, the Highland dress traditions.

So I view myself as being very traditional when I wear the kilt in this way, even though I get the feeling from some on the forum that they would not view it the same way:

[Cowher]

Some people seem to want to equate modern kilt wear (i.e. "non-traditional") with "casual" kilt wear, but I would strongly disagree. This implies that the kilt was never worn except for formal occasions. But remember there was a time when the kilt was the regular day-to-day mode of dress for the Highland male.

That's kind of the point Matt. To say 'modern kilt wear: the way it's worn today' and 'traditional kilt wear: the way it used to be worn' irritates me

If we were to have sub forums that covered -formal -semiformal and -casual that would cover it all.
I don't need to be told that if I wear a tweed jacket and waistcoat with my kilt I'm out of date andthat that style of wears died in 1980

I have heard this before on this forum. Kilt cops?!? I don't need no stinkin kilt cops!!

[DWFII]

I have heard this before on this forum. Kilt cops?!? I don't need no stinkin kilt cops!!

No disrespect intended, but I think you're confusing the issue. No one is talking about "kilt cops."

But this is a discussion forum. By necessity, it has themes and sub-themes..topics and sub-topics.

What we're talking about is limiting a discussion to certain themes, parameters and understanding so that we can have intelligent discussion without having to (re)define our lexicon or those understanding constantly.

We do this in every topic...whether it be the Pub or DIY, etc..

Those who are interested in the discussion...within the parameters defined by the topic...participate in it, constrained by those parameters.

Those who are not interested, given those limitations, participate in another discussion, often tailored specifically for their interests.

How much more fair can that be?

[Pyper]

I always thought the point of the two forums was to separate discussion between any form of highland dress staring in the Victorian period up to the present day, including what Matt posted photos of, from discussion of garments like the Utilikilt.

To my mind, it does make sense to put those type garments into a separate sub forum.