"Modern Clans" Sorry I don't get it?

[Gael Ridire]

Probably the best thing our ancestors did was make the decision to leave the home fires and go to the New World, either forced or by choice. Their descendants are better off then if they had stayed put. Of course that's my opinion.

To the one who sent to all their grandfather's memoirs, way to go!

Being the only child, of an only child, of an only child, I yearn for relatives, for kin. The clan/games gathering is a big picnic, hopefully all will feel it as a family reunion. The role the clan society now serves as is to preserve the clan history, genealogy, and accomplices of the clan members. And I've seen a time or two where the clan society rallied around a member who was in a hurtin' way. A rare thing indeed, but I wouldn't depend on it.

To me the Clan system died in Scotland at the end of the Jacobite era, then came the Highland clearances. As for Ireland, it was two hundred years earlier with Henry VIII and his "surrender & re-grant" program that began in 1543 A.D. Part of the agreement was giving up the Gaelic way of dress, language, music, religion, etc. Then a hundred years later came Oliver Cromwell who made sure that no child could trace who his grandfather was in documents and thus stand up and rally the clan around his banner.

Ya, today's clans are a romantic re-invention. Even some of today's chiefs could care less. At first I was sucked into all the romantic opinions, but being interested in history I went searching for myself and learned a lot along the way about what is truth and err. But without those societies and those like them, I'm afraid that in later generations we will all be just one society without a remembrance of history, or at least some would have it this way. I do like what one Irish chief said about charging membership, "We [newly formed society] are not going to charge for what is one's birthright." And what a visiting Scot said to me on discovering in a park near his hotel, "Thank God for ye Yanks! (Scottish diaspora descendants) For when the traditions of Scotland are gone, they'll still be around here."

And the beauty of it all today, you can choose to be a part or not.

[SFCRick]

when you did wear a kilt, what tartan did you wear?

[Meggers]

I don't think I have a clan to research back to at all. My last name is a Scottish occupational last name and not tied to a particular clan, really. All my last name really tells me was the occupation of an ancestor forever ago.

[Graham A. Robieson]

Greetings,

Drawing on what I know from my family history, my Great-Great-Grandfather left Scotland with his wife to go to America they had 5 children born there, however 15 years later they moved back to Scotland, and with that through the census had another 5 children later in life, with a loss of a son...my research has been limited given the fact that my G-G-Grandfather couldn't read or write, and given my name is Robieson they were recorded as Robertson. I have no clan of which to claim, perhaps of that of Robertson (more though I call clan connections) given the history, I based my Robieson tartan on the Robertson Red sett, my father was a miner and my grandfather a colliery surface worker, as far as records go...I traced my ancestor to my G-G-G-G-Grandfather though I don't have a date to put to him, though I guess around 1780, one thing remains in my family and thats the sole story about hardship, my ancestors moved around on both sides of my family, you go where the work is!!! my Great-Great-Grandfather is the first record I have found in regards to leaving Scotland in search of a better life, though 15 years later returned to Scotland, I'll never know his story, though I do take pride in his efforts to keep his family going. Clan is something I read in books, though I would never want to restore the clan system, one Chief of Clan Sutherland has an infamy during the clearances, the clan system was dying after Culloden, though it was the clearances that put the nail in the coffin.

Raising regiments was possible cause the rasing of troops through the tenants of the clan, kept the system going in a military sense, where the clan transulated into a fighting force for the British Army, along with the kilt, even though there was a ban on Highland Dress. Clan and Tartan are different matters in regards to history, clan is about the people, tartan is about the dress of the people, though you do not need a clan in order to wear tartan or the kilt, there suffering was the result of change, change in Scotland, change in politics, change in economy and changes in priorities, chiefs had to do what he could to keep there homes safe from the taxes put on them...so heres the understatement of the phrase...nothing personal...just business, cause clans went from warring to trading, and it was a change in trade, which meant crofters were no longer profitable, the loyal people of the clans could not stop or fore see this change, but what most brings pride to their story, is they adapted to the situation, and did not sit on their hands, they got up and went where they could make a life for themselves, today clan is more to do with the people not the chief, though chiefs today hold jobs just like everyone else, there role is more sentimental.


All the best,


Graham


Another note: Clann is gaelic for Children, the Chief holds place as father...how can a father throw his children out and replace them with more profitable sheep, not all chiefs cleared there tenants out...I read the history of Clan Donnachaidh, the clan didn't clear their tenants and was later bankrupted, they lost there lands and the tenants had to adapted to that change...though honourable the decision by the chief to keep his people together, lost his home as a result through the change in the economy.

[Gael Ridire]

Was asked what tartan I wore, I wore Kennedy (solid it to a guy who replaced me as representative), then I co-designed a state tartan with Dr. Phil Smith, and still have that. My family voted a few weeks ago and agreed to adopted the Irish National as our family tartan from now on.

[O'Callaghan]

<snip>

To me the Clan system died in Scotland at the end of the Jacobite era, then came the Highland clearances. As for Ireland, it was two hundred years earlier with Henry VIII and his "surrender & re-grant" program that began in 1543 A.D. Part of the agreement was giving up the Gaelic way of dress, language, music, religion, etc. Then a hundred years later came Oliver Cromwell who made sure that no child could trace who his grandfather was in documents and thus stand up and rally the clan around his banner.

Ya, today's clans are a romantic re-invention. Even some of today's chiefs could care less. At first I was sucked into all the romantic opinions, but being interested in history I went searching for myself and learned a lot along the way about what is truth and err. But without those societies and those like them, I'm afraid that in later generations we will all be just one society without a remembrance of history, or at least some would have it this way. I do like what one Irish chief said about charging membership, "We [newly formed society] are not going to charge for what is one's birthright." And what a visiting Scot said to me on discovering in a park near his hotel, "Thank God for ye Yanks! (Scottish diaspora descendants) For when the traditions of Scotland are gone, they'll still be around here."

And the beauty of it all today, you can choose to be a part or not.

Thanks for mentioning Irish clans.

In the early 17th century, then chief Conoghor O'Callaghan tried to get all the clan's lands transferred to him by legal action, and mostly failed, but succeeded in getting the chief's lands transferred to his personal ownership, which under the English system of primogeniture (itself since abolished, even in England) was the same thing, but under the system of tanistry hadn't been the same thing atall.

He probably hoped that he could do what many (all?) Scottish chiefs had done, and turn his clansmen into mere tenants, but Ireland was under English law and Scotland was and is under (Roman-based) civil law. The clan system was based on the Brehon law, which no longer governed on either side of the Irish sea, making the traditional land rights of the clans no longer enforceable.

Then, when Cromwell came, the chief and his close family were forced off their land near Mallow, Co. Cork, but given land in Co. Clare, leaving the ordinary clansmen behind in Cork. So, they didn't become landless due to Cromwell (although others may not have been so lucky), but were merely split up and moved around, bad enough as that may be.

However, later on (18th century?) there was a ban on all Catholics from owning land unless they converted to Church of Ireland, only repealed in 1840, by when the damage would already have been done. The potato famine came right after that, and rather than being in any position to buy land, tenant farmers were largely forced to emigrate. My own forebears were sailors by that time, still in Cork, but a couple of them wound up in England by way of the Royal Navy.

There was a clan society based in Mallow, in the area where the clan lands had been, but AFAIK it is defunct, and I've no inclination to start a new one here in the US, only because it sounds too much like hard work, and not because of any dastardly dealings by Chief Conoghor O'Callaghan in the 17th century.

The line of chiefs in Clare died out, and succession passed to a line that had fled to Spain, now blessed with the title of Don as well as Chief. If there were a clan society I doubt if they would participate, and I am not sure whether they are in a line descended from the dastardly Conoghor or not. I'd be willing to bet that I'm not, though!

[Gael Ridire]

Interesting story. Is it worth trying to get one's clan society founded? I tried back in 1997, founded a society and met with the clan chief twice to discuss development. Two years into the project a fellow in California didn't like how our website was and went and founded a rival society and got the chief's support also. Not wanting two society's I folded. He ran the website for ten years, did the surname DNA project and found out he had the surname but not the DNA. He resigned, the chief saw that money couldn't be made and was going to fold it all up when another persuaded him to let him try. I then got a call to help the new one, and being a sucker I said okay. I believe one should know their history & if I can help make that easier then cool.

My experience is that only a few care. Folks may join but only be active for a year or two. It must be a labor of love for those involved, because again there's no money in it, no pat on the back, no recognition, and few really care. What I have done is created a blog & posting all my writing, research, etc., about the history of the clan, etc. It is all for free to those who are interested. http://houseofbrianboru.blogspot.com/

So it is up to you to decide what to do.