Question about Clan Fraser Crest

[creagdhubh]

See the "Heraldry" page on Lady Saltoun's web site:

http://www.fraserchief.co.uk/heraldry.html

Note that the image displayed on her site shows the motto with the "t" in Prest.

T.

Adhere to this. If this is how Lady Saltoun and Lord Lovat spell the (Fraser of Lovat) motto, then that is how you should spell it.

Cheers,

[Paul Henry]

I don't know a lick of French, but out of curiosity, I typed "I am ready" into the Google translator, and it told me that the French phrase should read "Je suis prêt." Interesting that they show the "t" but not the "s".

I was taught that the "ê" was used to show that a letter had been deleted at some time in the past, and that letter was often a vowel or the letter "s"
an example would be fête instead of feste
just a memory from my childhood french!

[Tobus]

I was taught that the "ê" was used to show that a letter had been deleted at some time in the past, and that letter was often a vowel or the letter "s"
an example would be fête instead of feste
just a memory from my childhood french!

Now we may be getting somewhere! Perhaps the Fraser clan motto is an archaic form of French, which would make perfect sense. It would be correct for the way French was written then, but outdated in today's French.

Can someone else verify this? That would almost be too perfect of an explanation!

*edited to add:

I do take particular interest in this, because the Fraser of Lovat clan crest is very similar to Colquhoun. They both have the stag's head. Fraser says "Je suis prest" while Colquhoun says "Si je puis". It's very easy to confuse one for the other at first glance!

[Mark R]

I don't know a lick of French, but out of curiosity, I typed "I am ready" into the Google translator, and it told me that the French phrase should read "Je suis prêt." Interesting that they show the "t" but not the "s".

Tobus, did the same and found the same result. Kinda was the motivation for asking here as nuances within a language dont show in the translation devices in all cases. Puzzled about his being adamant about dropping the "t" when learning what others have presented.

Thanks for your help.

[Mark R]

Whoa, like 3 of my worlds colliding in this thread! (applique/ embroidered garments, high school French, clan Fraser motto)
Je parle un petit peu de francais.

****EDIT** I am wrong.
I can't imagine dropping the t on "prest". It's not a French word then, "pres". "Près" is, but that changes it from "ready" to "almost/ or close" I don't think they want their motto to be "I am Close".
**END***
All I know of the Fraser (of Lovat) clan motto is from the Outlander book series. It's always "Je Suis Prest".

It's even on some Outlander SWAG.
http://www.zazzle.com/je+suis+prest+gifts
http://www.cafepress.com/+clan_fraser_button,111469204

Hope that helps.
Yeah, you don't want to have to remove some applique. That's brutal.

Thanks for your post, GGGP. Appreciate your help.

If it comes down to tearing something out which jeopardizes the garment, I will just remake a new one. Less time and less headaches let alone the risk of ruining a garment.

As for the items on cafe, etc., have yet to find one with a different version of the motto yet my client claims his hat pin and kilt pins are both minus the "t." Not sure where they were obtained but it has muddled the discussions.

[Mark R]

Adhere to this. If this is how Lady Saltoun and Lord Lovat spell the (Fraser of Lovat) motto, then that is how you should spell it.

Cheers,

Exactly what I tend to do if any questions exist. Go to great lengths to verify info and adhere to the directions from those authorities within a given clan.

[Mark R]

I was taught that the "ê" was used to show that a letter had been deleted at some time in the past, and that letter was often a vowel or the letter "s"
an example would be fête instead of feste
just a memory from my childhood french!

Thanks for your input, paulhenry, as it does add a new and very plausible explanation to understanding the motto and the apparent confusion.

Has just been odd as this is the 1st time someone has questioned the clan Chief's verified motto even though I have done numerous items this way. That is the reason why I never knew to ask the customer for a clarification as I didnt know this other possibility even existed.

[Mike_Oettle]

What one needs to bear in mind when looking at British, and especially Scottish, mottoes that are in French, is that they are likely to be archaic in one sense or another.
Often the language/dialect in which the motto originated is Norman French, and even if it was in the Parisian dialect, it is likely to have been in a mediæval form, rather than anything modern.
So although modern French might state Je suis prêt (or even prês), the archaic form Je suis prest has clearly survived in this instance.
I do hope, Mark R, that you have not had to tamper with your appliqué work. It would be a travesty!
Regards,
Mike

[Mark R]

What one needs to bear in mind when looking at British, and especially Scottish, mottoes that are in French, is that they are likely to be archaic in one sense or another.
Often the language/dialect in which the motto originated is Norman French, and even if it was in the Parisian dialect, it is likely to have been in a mediæval form, rather than anything modern.
So although modern French might state Je suis prêt (or even prês), the archaic form Je suis prest has clearly survived in this instance.
I do hope, Mark R, that you have not had to tamper with your appliqué work. It would be a travesty!
Regards,
Mike

Thank you, Mike. The final verdict has yet to be determined. I have sent the customer links to Clan Fraser sites and will likely forward a link to this thread once it runs its course. Hopefully we arrive at a decision which serves him the best as a clansman representing his Chief and clan. Will update when we reach a conclusion.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Mike is correct, it likely reflects an archaic spelling. Remember that post Norman invasion, French was the dominant language in England, and the Frasers are an Anglo-Norman clan. That motto likely dates back hundreds of years (well before the establishment of standard spelling).

Flipping through my crest book at some English language mottos, I see the Balfour motto is "Fordward" (not forward), clan Bell is "I beir the bel" (rather than "I bear the bell"), and the motto for Clan Chattan is "touch not the catt bot a glove" (as opposed to "touch not the cat but a glove," or the even more modern rendering "without a glove.")

On the French side I also note that the Carmichael motto is "Toujours Prest" meaning "always ready." Note the "t" on the end of "prest" there as well.

I'm fairly sure it just reflects an archaic spelling. And in any case, it is up to Lady Saltoun what her motto is, so how she spells it goes.