Goal to get a grant of COA

[creagdhubh]

Today I may have found the link I am missing, if so I am going to submit my paternal line for another NSAR ancestor. Once its proved by their genealogists then I will submit that with my packet to Lord Lyon. The NSAR uses professionals to proof your lineage.

Best of luck!

Slainte,

[Mike_Oettle]

A further benefit of obtaining a grant/matriculation from Lyon Court is that you can get a group of cousins to chip in and share the cost of a grant to an ancestor. That way you cut your costs in that area, and a matriculation (to yourself or perhaps to your father) costs considerably less.
Usually when a granting/registering authority requires proof of ancestry, it is male line ancestry that is needed. But if, for example, you wish to include a quartering for an ancestor from a female line of descent, proof of that also will be required.
Whichever route you choose to obtain legitimate arms, go for it!
My application for registration is in process in Pretoria, and the Bureau does frequently handle applications for foreigners (from the US, or virtually any other part of the world).
It’s a matter of whatever floats your boat. If Dublin, Edinburgh or London is too costly or too complicated, there are other institutions that can be approached, including several private registries in the US.
Regards,
Mike

[WVHighlander]

Well...here is to hoping I find a group of cousins in my DNA tests that are interested. 'Cause my father's side...not so much

[Dram]

I too qualify for the College of Arms, and for the Chief Herald of Ireland. Someday I would like to be devised (?) arms however, I think given the costs, I will probably go through South Africa.

I have a fair amount of Irish ancestry and have all of it documented in the U.S. and in Ireland. My direct paternal ancestry goes back to Isle of Anglesey, Wales which falls under the College of Arms.

Am I correct that going through the Chief Herald of Ireland would cost more than $4000.00 U.S.? I think the College of Arms might be approaching $6000.00.

These costs are a little steep for me, and that's why I think South Africa is a better choice.

[WVHighlander]

Here is a question: I wonder what Scottish etiquette says about wearing an armiger crest if your arms are not from the Lyon? ie if a person received arms from South Africa or Ireland could they wear their crest. (And yes I know as an American I could wear a viking helmet if I wanted but...)

[Dram]

Here is a question: I wonder what Scottish etiquette says about wearing an armiger crest if your arms are not from the Lyon? ie if a person received arms from South Africa or Ireland could they wear their crest. (And yes I know as an American I could wear a viking helmet if I wanted but...)

Wouldn't imagine that it would breach any etiquette rules considering you are wearing what is legitmately yours. The only thing I could see maybe being an issue would be displaying a non-Scottish crest within a garter. I would like to hear some opinions on that.

Good question WV.

[Mike_Oettle]

Dram wrote: “Wouldn't imagine that it would breach any etiquette rules considering you are wearing what is legitmately yours.”

Well, that’s my feeling. But if I ever get to wear my own crest on my bonnet, it will be in a plain circlet, not a strap and buckle (this is the accepted usage for armigers).
If my son then decides to wear my crest in a strap and buckle, nobody could stop him in South Africa. But if he were to visit Scotland wearing such a badge, Lord Lyon might have something to say about it.
Regards,
Mike

[Chas]

Here is a question: I wonder what Scottish etiquette says about wearing an armiger crest if your arms are not from the Lyon? ie if a person received arms from South Africa or Ireland could they wear their crest. (And yes I know as an American I could wear a viking helmet if I wanted but...)

Dram wrote: “Wouldn't imagine that it would breach any etiquette rules considering you are wearing what is legitmately yours.”

Well, that’s my feeling. But if I ever get to wear my own crest on my bonnet, it will be in a plain circlet, not a strap and buckle (this is the accepted usage for armigers).
If my son then decides to wear my crest in a strap and buckle, nobody could stop him in South Africa. But if he were to visit Scotland wearing such a badge, Lord Lyon might have something to say about it.
Regards,
Mike

The first thing that needs to be said is that the Lord Lyon does not have an All Seeing Eye. Unless someone tells him - he will not know. There was a recent case of a football (soccer) club that had been using the wrong arms for almost 50 years. Once he was told, the law required him to take action to regularise the arms. Which he did.
If a South African armiger attended a Highland Games wearing his crest within a circlet (not strap and buckle), who is to question him? The person would have to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the whole of the Scottish Register, before they could even ask the question.

The second thing is that ALL arms that are not granted by Lord Lyon are considered to be foreign and would be required to be matriculated before they can be used. This also includes grants or devisals by the College of Arms.

There are exceptions. The main exception being time. If a foreign armiger is a tourist and spends a couple of weeks in Scotland, it is not reasonable to expect him to have to go through the whole process (which could take 18 months) before he arrives. The crucial time-frame is 183 days continuous (being over half a year) or regular visits for the foreseeable future. If you decide to visit Scotland in 2014 (the next Gathering) and spend over 183 days there and use your own crest as a cap badge, then Lord Lyon would require you to matriculate your arms with him.

Strictly speaking every use of arms in Scotland needs to be matriculated. But, in practice there would not be enough hours in the day to regulate it all.

Regards

Chas

[creagdhubh]

The first thing that needs to be said is that the Lord Lyon does not have an All Seeing Eye. Unless someone tells him - he will not know. There was a recent case of a football (soccer) club that had been using the wrong arms for almost 50 years. Once he was told, the law required him to take action to regularise the arms. Which he did.
If a South African armiger attended a Highland Games wearing his crest within a circlet (not strap and buckle), who is to question him? The person would have to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the whole of the Scottish Register, before they could even ask the question.

The second thing is that ALL arms that are not granted by Lord Lyon are considered to be foreign and would be required to be matriculated before they can be used. This also includes grants or devisals by the College of Arms.

There are exceptions. The main exception being time. If a foreign armiger is a tourist and spends a couple of weeks in Scotland, it is not reasonable to expect him to have to go through the whole process (which could take 18 months) before he arrives. The crucial time-frame is 183 days continuous (being over half a year) or regular visits for the foreseeable future. If you decide to visit Scotland in 2014 (the next Gathering) and spend over 183 days there and use your own crest as a cap badge, then Lord Lyon would require you to matriculate your arms with him.

Strictly speaking every use of arms in Scotland needs to be matriculated. But, in practice there would not be enough hours in the day to regulate it all.

Regards

Chas

Very good points here Chas, thanks for your input - absolutely spot on!

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

Wouldn't imagine that it would breach any etiquette rules considering you are wearing what is legitmately yours. The only thing I could see maybe being an issue would be displaying a non-Scottish crest within a garter. I would like to hear some opinions on that.

Good question WV.

The word legitmately in this regard is key.

Cheers,