Is clan affiliation primarily along paternal lines?

[Rob, ClanMacMillan, NM]

This is a most timely thread . I was recently asked if a family with a distinct name could declare itself as a "sept" of an established clan and therefore he and his wife, and their children, and their children's children, etc., would be considered members of that clan. I told him I'd get back to him.

Are their rules, traditions, whatever to cover this situation?

Thanks much!

Rob.

[Tobus]

I was recently asked if a family with a distinct name could declare itself as a "sept" of an established clan

No, a family cannot declare itself a sept of a clan. They could, however, ask that the clan chief declare them as a sept. He would be the ultimate authority, as I understand it.

[Meggers]

Walker is also a recognized sept of Clan MacMillan. Somerled MacMillan gives a very full account of this sept in his book, "The MacMillans and Their Septs", published in 1952. PM me you address and I'll send you a copy of the relevant pages.
MoR

Wonderful! I wish I could trace my g-g-grandfather back further to see if I do have any ties to these clans. Right now, I'm just sort of in limbo like "I MIGHT belong to this one...I MIGHT belong to that one..."

[Grizzly]

I may have missed something but do you exhaust your searches on the paternal line before you start on the maternal line I.e. Would a grandmother on your paternal line take precedence over your mother?

Or is it as I suspect your closest familial association?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I may have missed something but do you exhaust your searches on the paternal line before you start on the maternal line I.e. Would a grandmother on your paternal line take precedence over your mother?

Yes, because her son (your father) would be assumed to be a member of her clan.

Or is it as I suspect your closest familial association?

Grizz--- damn good question!

You start off looking for your closest familial connection to a clan in the paternal line (ie that line which shares your surname). Now let's suppose your last name is Trouserkoff, and that lineage yields only Russian ancestors. You'd then turn to your Mother's ancestors (in the paternal line, her maiden name being Olsen) and if you found that her great-grannie was a Murray, who married an Olsen, then that would provide your clan link-- Tom Olsen, husband of Agnes Murray, not having a clan of his own, the clan affiliation would have been passed on thru his wife, down multiple generations, to the present day.

The question is, how many generations? And to that, there really isn't a definitive answer. In the United States some Indian tribes require members to be 1/4 "Indian", while others use 1/8 or even 1/16 ancestry to qualify as members of the tribe. In Scotland there isn't an arbitrary standard based on percentage of ancestry and membership in "the tribe" (one's clan) is based on a name, or set of names, historically associated with that clan. This is why, if one's surname isn't generally associated with the clan because the claim to clan membership (as opposed to membership in a clan society) is through an ancestor in the maternal line, asking to be officially adopted into the clan is probably a reasonable course of action.

Hope that explains things...

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

This is a most timely thread . I was recently asked if a family with a distinct name could declare itself as a "sept" of an established clan and therefore he and his wife, and their children, and their children's children, etc., would be considered members of that clan. I told him I'd get back to him.

Are their rules, traditions, whatever to cover this situation?

Thanks much!

Rob.

Rob,
If this is a specific Clan MacMillan question, please PM me and I will address this via private email. If you are asking in terms of general knowledge, then the answer is quite straight forward as it follows the usual heraldic rules for establishing a distinct branch of a family. Simply put, the head of a distinct branch must be the head of a gilfine (five distinct families all descended from a common (and nowadays) armigerous ancestor. Using our Mr. Gomez as an example:

Mr. Gomez, by descent thru his Mother (a Fraser) and by bond of manrent issued by the chief of Clan Frasier, is accepted as a member of Clan Fraser "as if a Clansman born." He takes up residence in Scotland, and is granted arms by the Lord Lyon. Assuming Gomez has five sons, all five would have to marry and pass on their arms (both undifferenced and differenced) to their heraldic heirs before it could be said that the holder of the undifferenced Gomez arms is the head of a distinct branch of clan Fraser. In other words it would take a minimum of three generations to establish a gilfine, or distinct branch of the Gomez family; at that point "Gomez" might be considered a sept, although I suspect that it would be highly unlikely unless the chief of clan Fraser saw some compelling reason to admit people with the surname "Gomez" -- and no other connection --to the fold of his clan.

[HenryT]

Since Fraser has been mentioned, if one can find no history of clan relationship, Simon Fraser, the 18th Lord Lovat, 25th MacShimidh, calls you. From Frasier of Lovat's web page:

Join the Clan Fraser

Lord Lovat is sending out the worlds first "e-Fiery Cross". We intend to become the most powerful modern clan on the web, with the largest registered fighting force on the internet!

In the days of the clan system, the Fiery Cross was a burning stick tied with a strip of linen dipped in blood. It was carried by a runner clansman and sent out by the chief as a call to arms. This was the sign for the Clan to gather.

I welcome those of Fraser descent, and those wishing to give allegiance to the clan. Non Frasers are welcomed as friends of the clan or "Bowl O'Meal" Frasers. The expression "Bowl O'Meal" derives from my ancestors the 11th Lord Lovat who strengthened the clan by exchanging oatmeal on the condition that men adopt the name Fraser and fight for the clan.

[Grizzly]

Scott thank you for your most interesting and enlightened reply. I am fairly sure that I don't have any associations on my paternal side as from what I can gather from research is that my paternal line possibly came over with William the conqueror after the battle of Hastings in 1066. My surname is Dando which is believed to be derived from D'annau which means from the alder grove. No scots connection whatsoever.

However as I previously mentioned my maternal line is Taylor so therefore it's Taylor or Cameron for me and I am extremely proud to be so. It's a shame the Normans didn't wear kilts.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Well, some of those Norman-Scots are kilted as my friend Joe Rollo (now of ancient blessed memory) was quick to point out! Erik Rollo accompanied his uncle, William the Conqueror to England in 1066, and it was Erik's son, Richard, who followed David I when he left England to re-claim the Scottish throne. The current chief of Clan Rollo lives in Perth-shire.

[Grizzly]

Well, some of those Norman-Scots are kilted as my friend Joe Rollo (now of ancient blessed memory) was quick to point out! Erik Rollo accompanied his uncle, William the Conqueror to England in 1066, and it was Erik's son, Richard, who followed David I then he left England to re-claim the Scottish throne. The current chief of Clan Rollo lives in Perth-shire.

Oh no just when I thought I was sorted. More research. Very interesting though.