New (?) Games in Dana Point CA, Aug 24-25 2013

**Alan H** · 30th May 13, 11:53 AM

Sorry that your thread has taken such a wide turn, sydnie7...we can move this elsewhere if you like.

After all, this is a KILT forum, not a "politics of the Heavy Athletics" forum.

**sydnie7** · 30th May 13, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Alan H

Sorry that your thread has taken such a wide turn, sydnie7...we can move this elsewhere if you like.

But was it a complete turn, Alan? LOL

I do think this discussion might be better served in the Athletics forum, if you even want to continue it. Perhaps a mod could move this thread there, and I could try again with a different title in the general "let's go to a Games!" forum. The Dana Point website does imply dancing, clans, vendors, food, music. . . and oh yes, some Games

**cessna152towser** · 30th May 13, 01:14 PM

Good idea Sydnie.
Thread being moved to Athletics sub-forum at your request.
As suggested by you please post a new introductory post in the main Highland Games section.

**Downunder Kilt** · 30th May 13, 03:40 PM

Alan, I have been doing some reading on the net of the different games, here there and everywhere, and it appears to me, to be the same situation that has beeen created in other sports eg. Boxing. You have the WBF and the WBA, both who have world titles, then if you win both, you are the undisputed champion. I have read the material on the games site that the OP refered to and can see this exact same thing (as you previously mentioned.)

**sydnie7** · 30th May 13, 03:50 PM

Is the situation the same for "world records" in the various events? For example, something I'm a little bit more conversant with, take track and field. There's a "world's record" mark or time for every event and it doesn't matter who is there to compete.

OTOH I seem to recall some controversy surrounding Olympic swimming (I'm talking years ago) when the venue built a new infinity-style pool that it was said could result in faster times than older/conventional pool style. Does the field in Highland Games have a recognized impact on performance, other than the obvious of "knee deep in mud."

Just the ol' inquiring mind thing. . .

**Alan H** · 31st May 13, 11:52 AM

That's how World Records on this sport are recorded as well. It doesn't matter who or where the record is set as long as it's performed at an event where the distances/heights are accurately recorded.

"World Championships" are different. In fact, Downunder Kilt, the "undisputed" thing has come up for discussion.

There's some comparison to the Olympics. Say, for example, in the shotput if the Ukraine has the top five throwers in the world, well...only three of them get to go, right? The top Argentinian shotputter(s) get to go if they meet the Olympic A standard, even if they're throwing 4 feet less than the Ukrainians. So it could very well be that the Olympics medals are NOT contested by the best 10 throwers in the world.

This is sort of the logic that's applied by some people. It's a "World" Championship, so that must mean that the best couple of throwers from every country that wants to field a team or an individual thrower should be included. Every country should be represented, they say. However, the field can only handle 12 or 15 athletes. So since the top 15 athletes are all from the USA, Canada, Poland (yes, Poland), Scotland...and then Aaron from Australia....but there are also athletes from Croatia, France, Hungary, Germany, Iceland and Japan ... well, how do they work that out? They invite one athlete from every country, right?

The problem is that the Croatian, French, Hungarian, German, Icelandic and Japanese athletes throw MUCH shorter distances, or heights than even the upper-level amateurs in the USA and Canada. So if you invite the best athletes from those six countries, you are cutting out guys from the USA and Canada who are much more accomplished. Is that fair?

One problem has been that these guys are "Pro's". As a general rule, if they don't get paid, they don't show up. A real sticking point for many years has been that Gregor Edmonds, one of the top athletes in Scotland, won't travel to the USA unless he's paid a LOT of money, and nobody has been willing to up-front the kind of cash that he wants. Some people say that once, a few years ago he WAS up-fronted a fair proportion of the cash that he wanted as a deposit, with the promise to get the rest when he showed up, and he never showed up.....and never refunded the deposit. Hmmmmm. Well, he's the current record holder in the light weight for distance, whether he "stole" money from a USA-based promoter or not. So, is any "World Championships" held without Gregor, really a valid "Championships"?

And so the problem goes....

**Carlo** · 31st May 13, 01:45 PM

There are many sports were world championships don't neccessarily include the best athletes. There are examples in team sports: Ice-Hockey (NHL playoffs during the WC), road cycling (limited nr. cyclists per country and not even the same nr. per team). Then there are solo sports: Time trial cycling (limited nr. per country), skiing (limited nr. per country)...
Not that far back in history pros were not allowed at the olympics.
So real World Championships can be held with the system people agree on and maybe even without the pros.

Oh and I forgot, that in some sports one country thinks that only its league is of any value. Check MLB

Good luck