Even More Fun with DNA

**J Ross** · 23rd March 14, 10:33 PM

As I plan for future tartans ... Segue:

I'm looking for advice from those with experience using FTDNA, AncestryDNA or Geno2.0.

I have a paper trail to my immigrant ancestor from Angus Co., Scotland 1695. I'm not interested in finding 4,000 cousins necessarily and the paper trail has run cold. As I wait for old parish records to added to ScotlandsPeople I thought of purchasing a DNA kit.

Would any of the existing tests be able to help me gain information on whether my line might be a Ross of the Highlands or a Hawkhead Ross? My thinking would be that if I trigger Irish ancestry I might be closer to the Rosses of the O'Beolin line. If I trigger Norman/NE I'm likely closer to the Pitcalie line, 'de Ros'. Most likely I'm somewhere in between like a blacksmith who thought the Surname Ross might bring better business, but it nice to focus on something bigger. Are any of the tests that specific?

Anyone have anything good to say about ScotlandDNA? That might be the most specific about my needs, but people trash it's reputation.

Thanks for reading and any guidance.

Push comes to shove, my oldest female ancestor is a Fraser. Imma snatch up that tartan.

**unixken** · 24th March 14, 03:11 AM

I took the AncestryDNA test about six months ago. Through a claimed 700,000 markers, it tries to match you with other Ancestry.com users who have taken the AncestryDNA test (your "4000 cousins", assuming they are all both ancestry.com users, and AncestryDNA participants), and also highlights what countries/regions typify some of the markers found in your DNA (more of an "ethnic origins" type of report.) But it's not intended to be a substitute for the more bloodline-specific tests such as a mitochondrial or Y-chromosome DNA test would show.

**McElmurry** · 24th March 14, 06:13 AM

Based on discussions on the R-M222 list ScotlandDNA Chromo2 is one of three tests they find useful. The other two are Full Genomes (if you want to be at the forefront) or FTDNA Big Y.

What really helps is an active group based on either surname or SNP. If you release your data to an active project they will slice it and dice it for you.

You might want to wander around this site for a bit.

http://www.anthrogenica.com/forum.php

I have been following the R-M222 discussion for some time now. This is the line named for Niall of the Nine hostages although it now it appears the mutation happened long before Niall came along. A McElmurry cousin tested positive for R-M222 which confirms my McElmurrys are not closely related to the Morrisons of Lewis and Harris.

**J Ross** · 26th March 14, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by McElmurry

Based on discussions on the R-M222 list ScotlandDNA Chromo2 is one of three tests they find useful. The other two are Full Genomes (if you want to be at the forefront) or FTDNA Big Y.

Thanks for the response and the links.

I would assume that Full Genomes test would be very useful considering the cost.

I'm also excited to hear something positive about Scotland DNA.

By 'Big Y' on FTDNA did you mean the Y test that tracks 111 markers?

**McElmurry** · 26th March 14, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by J Ross

Thanks for the response and the links.

I would assume that Full Genomes test would be very useful considering the cost.

I'm also excited to hear something positive about Scotland DNA.

By 'Big Y' on FTDNA did you mean the Y test that tracks 111 markers?

No. The 111 marker test if for STRs. The Big Y tests SNPs.

https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/...testing/big-y/

For years the industry focused on short tandem repeats or STRs and comparing how closely your STRs match someone else's. It very much follows the scientific method. Use STRs to predict a connection (thesis) and then perform a test (SNP) design specifically for that one connection. The industry has progressed steadily for many years using this method.

Recently folks have started testing for very large numbers of SNPs. This is more like space exploration...go where no man has gone before. Many personal SNPs are being discovered and it will be many years before the connections are all worked out.

I got tested by 23andme for $99. The ancestry testing is not very deep but it would place you in a Haplogroup. For instance I am R1b-L21 so I follow what is happening in that group and what tests they are using to subdivide the group.

The M-222 group tends to recommend Chromo2 raw for starters. The raw is just raw data and you would need to upload it to a group to have it analyzed. It might work well for you since it is focused on differentiating folks from the isles. They also love folks to get the 111 marker test because there are a lot of people with STRs and no SNPs. People who test for both provide a link to the heaps of folks with only STR data.

You could start by looking through the Ross project to see if there is anyone you recognize. It might give you a hint to you Haplogroup.

Here is a link https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ion=ycolorized

**J Ross** · 26th March 14, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by McElmurry

You could start by looking through the Ross project to see if there is anyone you recognize. It might give you a hint to you Haplogroup.

I just wanted to extend a heartfelt thank you for the information you've provided. It has really helped me analyze what I want to do and at what scale. Truly generous of you to post.

**Matty Ross** · 27th March 14, 07:08 AM

Let me know what you find out. I might go for it too. It's a good chance I am one of your 4000 cousins.

**J Ross** · 27th March 14, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Matty Ross

Let me know what you find out. I might go for it too. It's a good chance I am one of your 4000 cousins.

I will let you know. I'm going to spend more time researching the options that will give me the raw data that I can use to compare to some of the open projects as McElmurry wrote.

Until posting this I was so cold on the idea of getting a DNA test at this time, but seeing that the real analysis comes after the sometimes cheesy pamphlets or website materials have been combed through. Right now, I'm actually leaning towards either the Big Y or Chromo2 from Scotland DNA. Scotland DNA has a breakdown that shows percentages of Hebridean Vikings, Normans and such. This would be neat to have to show off. Then as we learn more be able to tweak, prove those results.

Depending on if I can sell some older film equipment on eBay I'll see how much coin there is to drop.

**McElmurry** · 27th March 14, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by J Ross

I just wanted to extend a heartfelt thank you for the information you've provided. It has really helped me analyze what I want to do and at what scale. Truly generous of you to post.

Your welcome. It is kind of like buying a computer when you haven't been paying attention to the industry for five years. It is definitely a good idea to take your time and get up to speed.

**J Ross** · 27th March 14, 09:19 PM

I haven't had a ton of time to continue looking into this today, but I did see that FTDNA will complete a Y12 test and then as ordered you can re-test that sample at higher amounts of Y markers upon request. Might give people (me) a chance to get their feet wet and unfold the mysterious at a casual pace.

i also enjoyed the group discounts for certain surname groups.