Evolution of Scottish National Dress in vintage catalog illustrations

[Jack Daw]

Here's a thread from a while back showing some photos of actual examples of sporrans not that different from the ones seen in that old Forsyth catalogue

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...porrans-57824/

No I don't have the one that the many-named OP posted pics from. It appears to be as early or earlier than my earliest ones, which are from the 1920s. I love that stuff!

I do wonder what year this is (does it say "10-5-16" or "10-8-16"?)



because it takes us back to the early (perhaps earliest) years of the "Prince Charlie coatee" (or simply "coatee") which in the 1920s is spoken of as being a new style. Interesting that it's shown on an older gent: in the 1920s and 30s the coatee is described as being for young men and not suitable for mature men, who are presumed to prefer the older Doublet (what we call the Regulation Doublet today).

Note the "buckle loafers" as I call them, slipon shoes with nonfunctional buckles, which were worn by Highland officers in Levee Dress in the 19th century (for which Mary Janes are worn now). The sporran is very interesting: note the pleated leather bordering the cantle.

Here for comparison is the coatee (Prince Charlie ain't in it) from Anderson 1936 catalogue, likewise worn with lace jabot and non-matching waistcoat



Now about this illustration



the most striking thing is the horribly drawn right hand... which actually appears to be a second left hand.

and the wearing of the sort of shoes still called "kilties" which nowadays we don't wear with the kilt.

Anyhow about the "evolution" part, if these illustrations were painted in 1916 there's virtually no change in twenty years, between these and my 1936 catalogue, save for pleating to the stripe v pleating to the sett.

No, despite holding the cane, his fist is on his hip in an akimbo manner.

[Domehead]

You guys are awesome.
Not exactly "Hamish MacBeth", but it'll do, Lads

Ryan

[Tarheel]

Let me catch up here. The guy is holding the cane with the butt of his hand facing front and his thumb toward the rear, all the drawings are dated 10-5-16, "kiltie" shoes are passé and hard to find anyway, and there are lapels on the waist coat of the gent holding his aperitif? I hope I got some of this right.

[Nathan]

Kiltie shoes are fine.

[OC Richard]

No, despite holding the cane, his fist is on his hip in an akimbo manner.

Do the math, as it were... in your mind's eye unwrap that supposed little finger from round the cane and see how long it is... it's as big around as a thumb and longer than a middle finger!

Many's the artist who is good at everything but hands, especially hands holding things.

The other hand is quite well drawn, obviously from a source. I'll guess that the artist was right-handed, and could use his own left hand as the model for that, but for the right hand had to do some guessing... and as one of my old life-drawing teachers said "never guess! Guesses are always wrong."

[creagdhubh]

Do the math, as it were... in your mind's eye unwrap that supposed little finger from round the cane and see how long it is... it's as big around as a thumb and longer than a middle finger!

Many's the artist who is good at everything but hands, especially hands holding things.

The other hand is quite well drawn, obviously from a source. I'll guess that the artist was right-handed, and could use his own left hand as the model for that, but for the right hand had to do some guessing... and as one of my old life-drawing teachers said "never guess! Guesses are always wrong."

Quite so. I recall spending an entire month only studying and drawing human hands and feet in one of my anatomy drawing and life size figure drawing courses as an undergraduate fine art student studying under Victor Wang and Tim Liddy. Those sessions were absolutely brutal; however, rather effective.

[Jack Daw]

Do the math, as it were... in your mind's eye unwrap that supposed little finger from round the cane and see how long it is... it's as big around as a thumb and longer than a middle finger!

Many's the artist who is good at everything but hands, especially hands holding things.

The other hand is quite well drawn, obviously from a source. I'll guess that the artist was right-handed, and could use his own left hand as the model for that, but for the right hand had to do some guessing... and as one of my old life-drawing teachers said "never guess! Guesses are always wrong."

Nah, that's just makes him one of 007's arch-Scottish villains.

[MacGumerait]

Well , I guess it's safe to say that artwork is like piping .... it's the fingering that makes the difference .

[Steve Ashton]

Folks this thread was started by a person who has had their membership here revoked on many occasions.
The thread is no longer about what it was started about.

I think it's overdue to fade into the background.