By Appointment to the late King George V kilt

[berend]

Hello,

Out of historical interest i'm offered a kilt of W M Anderson & Sons Ltd
The label says: By Appointment to the late King George V"

My questions are:
-when was such a label introduced? in 1936 when the king died?
-how long would such a label be used in kilts?

In this link it states that W M Anderson & Sons Ltd could use this kind of label from 1940 onwards
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinbur...e/476/data.pdf

So my real queation would be in which time period this kilt would probably be made?

thanks in advance

rene

[berend]

Double post, please delete thanks in advance rene

[Jock Scot]

As I understand it, the convention is that A Royal Warrant holder may use the title for 5 years after the death of, in this case, King George V. It is also quite correct in that circumstance for the Warrant holder to use the term "the Late King George V". I have no idea when Anderson & Sons received their accolade, but it would have been anytime prior to The King's(George V) death, but going on what I think happens, then any new kilt from Anderson & Sons, would have been correctly labeled thus until sometime in1941.

[OC Richard]

Thanks for the info, because I have an Anderson catalogue with that title.

I didn't know that the Royal Warrant holder could use the title for 5 years.

I had assumed that they would only use that title until they received a new Royal Warrant from the new Monarch.

I have another Anderson catalogue, more recent, I assume around 1950, which has

By Appointment
Tailors and Kiltmakers
To His Majesty The King

and within it is a price list dated 1957, which has:

By Appointment
To HM The Queen
Tailors and Kiltmakers

By Appointment
To HRH The Duke of Edinburgh
Tailors and Kiltmakers

[Jock Scot]

Thanks for the info, because I have an Anderson catalogue with that title.

I didn't know that the Royal Warrant holder could use the title for 5 years.

I had assumed that they would only use that title until they received a new Royal Warrant from the new Monarch.

I have another Anderson catalogue, more recent, I assume around 1950, which has

By Appointment
Tailors and Kiltmakers
To His Majesty The King

and within it is a price list dated 1957, which has:

By Appointment
To HM The Queen
Tailors and Kiltmakers

By Appointment
To HRH The Duke of Edinburgh
Tailors and Kiltmakers

As I understand it and to be clear here, the Royal Warrant Holder can display the Warrant from the time it was issued by a particular Monarch and can display it for 5 years after that particular Monarch's death.

There is no automatic right for the succeeding Monarch to issue a new Warrant to an existing holder. Although I think many are Honoured with a new Royal Warrant from a new Monarch, but there is no guarantee.

[Tenmiles]

Interestingly enough, in Japan, there seems (at least in some cases) to be a convention of a "warrant holder" (if you will) having the right to pass it down in the family, through succeeding generations of both the business and the monarchy it serves.

For example, the late headmaster of my school of archery bore the appointment "bowmaker to the emperor", as does his successor (his son-in-law, carrying on the family business), as did the three previous generations of the family, going back to the late 1800s.

I am not sure whether this represents a case where each new emperor chose to appoint the current head of that same family to the position, or if the position was simply inherited within the family and confirmed by lack of the current emperor saying anything to the contrary.

(That being said, the appointment holder does have a specific duty, which involves crafting a new set of fifty-nine ceremonial bows every twenty years for the Ise Grand Shrine; most of the individual appointment holders seem to get to do it twice in their tenure, but there doesn't seem to have ever been any question about whose job it was at any given time.)

On the other hand, this appointment doesn't seem to be used as an advertising or promotional statement in the business of purveying the goods to the public.

[Manxstralian]

As I understand it and to be clear here, the Royal Warrant Holder can display the Warrant from the time it was issued by a particular Monarch and can display it for 5 years after that particular Monarch's death.

I don't have a bottle handy, but isn't there a Royal Warrant for several past monarchs (or members of the royal family) on a couple of different Whiskies? And also Tanqueray or Bombay Sapphire? Is there a distinction made between the Warrant of a monarch, and the Warrant of (for example) HRH The Prince of Wales?

I'm curious how this works, and while I'm sure Jock Scot has more experience in this matter, if there is a formal convention relating to it.

As somewhat of a postscript, I have a Fribourg and Treyer snuff tin (from a couple of years ago) which has the Royal Warrant for "Their late Majesties The Kings of Hanover and Belgium".

Interesting topic!

Cheers,

Cameron

[Jock Scot]

I don't have a bottle handy, but isn't there a Royal Warrant for several past monarchs (or members of the royal family) on a couple of different Whiskies? And also Tanqueray or Bombay Sapphire? Is there a distinction made between the Warrant of a monarch, and the Warrant of (for example) HRH The Prince of Wales?

I'm curious how this works, and while I'm sure Jock Scot has more experience in this matter, if there is a formal convention relating to it.

As somewhat of a postscript, I have a Fribourg and Treyer snuff tin (from a couple of years ago) which has the Royal Warrant for "Their late Majesties The Kings of Hanover and Belgium".

Interesting topic!

Cheers,

Cameron

I am no expert, not even half a one on this matter! Royal Warrants in the UK are/ have been issued by the Prince of Wales, Duke of Edinburgh and one I remember well from HM the Queen Mother over the door of Haggarts the tweed maker from Aberfeldy. Each warrant is differenced by the Coat of Arms of the particular "Royal" that issued it. I have even less of an idea how Royal Warrants from outside of the UK work though.

The Trade Labels inside British gunmakers gun cases, particularly from the pre WW2 era, are fertile areas to see worldwide Royal Coats of Arms from the Warrants issued by satisfied Royal customers(google trade labels British gun makers and click on images), but anything from jam makers, candlestick makers to gunmakers, fishing tackle makers to Jewellers and kilt makers have to my knowledge held Royal Warrants over time.

I have no doubt whatsoever that there is, somewhere, a very strict and formal set of rules covering this issue, so please do not take my meagre interpretation on these matters as anything other than broad brush.