Registering a new tartan

[roy croft]

Hello, folks.

I've been working on a design for a new tartan that I should like to register. I have a couple questions about how this would work out. The tartan will be for general use by hobby enthusiasts. I'll not mention the hobby right now, but there are some associations/clubs related the hobby, and my desire is to register a tartan that anyone can use, and not have any one of the associations/clubs claim any kind of ownership/authority/naming of it. I first of all want to know how I should register it - should it be a corporate tartan? That seems the closest to what its purpose would be. Secondly, if I do register it as such, will there be any questioning of an individual registering it that way vs. a "corporate" official?

I hope you can see that I want to do this so as to avoid any political or other factional influence over it. I'll happily foot the bill for the registration to ensure that its use is not encumbered in any way.

I'd appreciate any input from folks who know more about how the Tartan Registry works. I'd also like a rough idea of how long it generally takes from submission to registration.

Slàinte!

[unixken]

The Scottish Register of Tartans recommends a corporate designation for "a company, organization or an informal group of individuals." Based on what you've described, either that, or a fashion classification, would seem appropriate. The specific interest or hobby your design represents, and any restrictions (or statement that there are no restrictions), can be spelled out in other sections of your application.

[figheadair]

In order to be accepted as a Corporate tartan you will need to provide evidence in the form of a supporting statement by the Governing body, the chairman or senior representative or some such. Otherwise it will need to be classified as a Fashion tartan. It is the intent to refine the categories and introduce 'Other' for cases such as this. Unfortunately that it some way off as it is scheduled to happen under a major software re-write and is dependent on prioritisation of funding for IT projects in the National Archives.

[roy croft]

Thank you for your prompt and informative reply. I thought it might be the case that I would have difficulty registering as a corporate tartan, but it seems the best match category for what I want to do. "Fashion" doesn't really fit the bill, IMO, but I can see how that might be the best way to do it for now. When I'm ready to submit my application I want it be as correct as possible to help ensure that things go smoothly. I'm obviously new to this, and your pointing me in the right direction is much appreciated.

Whenever your software rewrite happens (I sense nobody should engage in breath holding in the interim) will existing tartan registrations likely be recategorized?

Slàinte!

[figheadair]

Whenever your software rewrite happens (I sense nobody should engage in breath holding in the interim) will existing tartan registrations likely be recategorized?

Just to be clear, it's not my software re-write, I am but a member of the Tartan Advisory Committee. The problem is, as I understand it, one of server capacity and the fact that all the National Archives are centralised. There is much work to be done to rationalise and update various Dbs and the NTR one is pretty much at the back of the queue. When (if?) that does happen then there will be a rationalisation of certain categories; Portrait/Artefact for example is a pretty meaningless term and a category that has been used as a dumping ground for pre-NTR setts that don't fit eslewhere.

When (if?) the NTR update does happen then the majority of existing records will remain unaffected. Where we feel that a new/existing tartan should be in the Other category then it is being temporarily assigned elsewhere, Fashion for example with a tag noting that it is to be moved when the upgrade takes effect.

[roy croft]

Just to be clear, it's not my software re-write, I am but a member of the Tartan Advisory Committee. The problem is, as I understand it, one of server capacity and the fact that all the National Archives are centralised.

Yes, it was clear to me that you, personally were not doing the software rewrite. I was referring to the Tartan Advisory Committee. It wasn't clear that the committee were not in charge of the project. Being at the mercy of the National Archives it seems this could be a long-term frustration. The database as it exists is a great asset, and to come as far as you have in consolidating/cataloging/registering hundreds of years of history in less than 10 years is quite an accomplishment. Thank you for your part with this work.

Slàinte!

[Mike_Oettle]

Roy, while I have designed several tartans, I have registered only one.
I hope that in the long run it will be a district tartan for South Africa, but I have accepted that it must, for the time being, be listed as Fashion.
When the time comes I might try to have it listed as Other, although District would really make me happy.
Perhaps if you could organise an umbrella body for your hobby, incorporating businesses, societies and individuals, they might be able to put it through as Corporate.
Regards,
Mike

[roy croft]

Roy, while I have designed several tartans, I have registered only one.
I hope that in the long run it will be a district tartan for South Africa, but I have accepted that it must, for the time being, be listed as Fashion.
When the time comes I might try to have it listed as Other, although District would really make me happy.
Perhaps if you could organise an umbrella body for your hobby, incorporating businesses, societies and individuals, they might be able to put it through as Corporate.
Regards,
Mike

Sadly, I need to avoid doing that kind of organising if this is to work. I already have a person with a major association wanting to own and control a tartan, and that's what i need to prevent from happening. Registering it as fashion would be fine for now, but some kind of category for not-for-profit loosely-organised interest groups would be great. My immediate goal is to get the tartan registered as easily for both me and the Tartan Registry as possible.

Slàinte!

[Steve Ashton]

Roy,

If I can point out ---

Registering a Tartan is one thing. The registering body, whether you use The Scottish Register or The Scottish Tartans Authority, on recognizes that your design as unique, not a copy of something someone else has done. The registering body is also confirming that your chosen name meets the criteria. For example you cannot name a Tartan after a company without that companies approval of some sort.

Restricting a Tartan is something totally different. Many Tartans have been copyrighted by their designers. In some cases this is to protect intellectual property. In some cases it is simply to record the name of the designer.
Some other restrictions could be what mill is authorized to weave it. In this case you are choosing the weaving mill that will give you the yarn colors and Sett size you intend.
Some Tartans carry restrictions on who is authorized to wear it. An example would be a Tartan for a club.

Making a Tartan "official" is quite a different ball of wax.
Let me give you an example of these -

I designed the Victoria, City of Gardens Tartan. The Tartan was my gift to my adopted city.
I registered it with both the SRT and the STA. I sent in a swatch to be kept in the Scottish Archives.

When I registered the design I restricted it to be woven by the mill that I had the original weaving done with. I wanted all subsequent weavings to be the same colors and Sett Size.

That was step one.

Step two was presenting my design, along with a competing design, to the Victoria City Council for their vote. I'm happy to say that they chose my design. I have a letter signed by the Mayor stating that my design is now the "Official" Tartan of the City of Victoria, BC Canada.
I had to then submit a copy of the Mayors letter to both Registration bodies so that they could update their web listing.

And finally I took out a Copyright on my design to protect my intellectual property.


There is no requirement to do any of these steps.

[roy croft]

Roy,

If I can point out ---

Registering a Tartan is one thing. The registering body, whether you use The Scottish Register or The Scottish Tartans Authority, on recognizes that your design as unique, not a copy of something someone else has done. The registering body is also confirming that your chosen name meets the criteria. For example you cannot name a Tartan after a company without that companies approval of some sort.

Restricting a Tartan is something totally different. Many Tartans have been copyrighted by their designers. In some cases this is to protect intellectual property. In some cases it is simply to record the name of the designer.
Some other restrictions could be what mill is authorized to weave it. In this case you are choosing the weaving mill that will give you the yarn colors and Sett size you intend.
Some Tartans carry restrictions on who is authorized to wear it. An example would be a Tartan for a club.

Making a Tartan "official" is quite a different ball of wax.
Let me give you an example of these -

I designed the Victoria, City of Gardens Tartan. The Tartan was my gift to my adopted city.
I registered it with both the SRT and the STA. I sent in a swatch to be kept in the Scottish Archives.

When I registered the design I restricted it to be woven by the mill that I had the original weaving done with. I wanted all subsequent weavings to be the same colors and Sett Size.

That was step one.

Step two was presenting my design, along with a competing design, to the Victoria City Council for their vote. I'm happy to say that they chose my design. I have a letter signed by the Mayor stating that my design is now the "Official" Tartan of the City of Victoria, BC Canada.
I had to then submit a copy of the Mayors letter to both Registration bodies so that they could update their web listing.

And finally I took out a Copyright on my design to protect my intellectual property.


There is no requirement to do any of these steps.

Hi, Steve.

Thanks for your explanation. I'm pretty clear on the difference between registration and restriction. I want to focus on registering it first so that I can control restrictions on it. Where this is coming from is that the tartan I've been working on is one I had been discussing with a couple other folks, and both the colors themselves and the sequence in the sett have meaning. Someone from an official association found out about the conversations and thinks that the association might want to adopt the tartan and restrict it. My goal is to prevent that. I have no problem, of course, with their designing their own and restricting it in any way that they wish.

I've spent much of my career in software development/deployment, and I'm an advocate for both open source and proprietary software. I think people have the right to protect their intellectual property any way they want to, and I also think people have the right to give it away if they want to. My problem is with people who try to tell others what they can or should do with their intellectual property.

This association has no involvement with my tartan design other than hearing about it and thinking they want to "own" it. All I want in the end is for anyone to be able to use it. I don't care if it's in any way "official."

It seems that I should focus on registering it to ensure that nobody else registers one first that is similar enough to preclude my ability to do so. Please let me know if that seems an odd way of looking at it.

Slàinte!