Sgian dubh in church?

**McMurdo** · 15th January 16, 02:45 PM

I work at a church, it really did come as a surprise to be working there as I have never been the religious type. At any rate I have recently had ocassion to wear the kilt to church, first for a funeral the family thought it would be great to see someone in a kilt as the deceased was from Scotland and would have liked it. I was only too happy to oblige and everyone was very pleased to see me in the kilt looking so smart. Second time was for St. Andrews Day and then for our Christmas Eve service. I work as a custodian and have never had a problem wearing the kilt for work though it does make for warm work when wearing a tweed argyll jacket, kilt hose etc. Each time I have worn the kilt to church I have worn the sgian dubh as it is part of the outfit and seen as the proper thing to wear. In days past, when I was wearing the kilt daily I would forgo the sgian quite a bit of the time, however now that I have 2 really outstanding sgian dubhs one a dress sgian and the other a day wear sgian neither of which dig into my leg, I tend to wear them when dressed up. Here are photos from the past couple of times St. Andrews and Christmas Eve. Wearing the sgian has never been an issue at all.

**Father Bill** · 15th January 16, 03:59 PM

Wow!

Go away for 24 hours and see what I miss!

Yes, I have worn it in church, even when I was officiating. I'd do it again. I'm an Anglican Priest. In Canada, people seem to understand kilts & kit, so there's never been an eyebrow raised. Anglicans (Episcopalians) tend to behave like Romans.

As a Scout Leader and Commissioner, I wore one to services when we were wearing shorts and it was considered part of that uniform for leaders, but... Scouting tradition hereabouts was to leave them on a stump at the door. Honestly, I never understood that and thought that it was an ostentations show of false piety, but when in Rome.... If it meant something to some people, that's fine with me, and I wouldn't violate their symbolic action, even if I personally thought it was poppycock. (Can I say that without offending anyone?)

No, I would not wear one to synagogue. As a tool symbolic of labour, it would in my mind, be a violation of the laws of Shabbes.

Bill+

**Peter Crowe** · 15th January 16, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Without going into detail here, there are very conservative thinking congregations in Christian Scotland, where the kilt would not be worn to church either.

A perspicacious observation Jock, and those denominations/congregations to which you allude are more common in the Highlands and Islands where the kilt originates from. I would not wear my kilt to a service in those churches out of courtesy to my hosts and an awareness and sensitivity to their feelings on the matter. My own denomination in Scotland (the one in which I was baptised, brought up in, and became an adult communicant of) is more mainstream to liberal in doctrine although from the same theological roots.

In that denomination (The Church of Scotland) wearing THCD tweed day-wear certainly was culturally appropriate although not common. When so dressed the sgian dhub was worn as part of the attire. I have occasionally worn such attire to Church (and was expected to so when attending in uniform as a Scout).

All that said, I think where there is any dubiety about cultural norms etc., it is probably wisest to not wear the kilt (far less a sgian dhub) to worship services, especially funerals unless specifically requested to do so by the officiating celebrant and or family most closely affected.

**OC Richard** · 16th January 16, 07:13 AM

I have observed before, and it pertains here, that there are two local Pastors who preach in Highland Dress from time to time.

One is an American of Scottish ancestry, one is a Scot.

Their congregations accept their wearing the kilt on occasion as being part of who they are, in fact they know if they see their Pastor dressed like that, they're in for a special Service, with a piper (me).

As far as how people dress when they attend Mass around here, it could be almost anything. At the same Mass there are men in suits and men in board shorts and flip-flops and tees. This being the case a kilt wouldn't be all that out of place, probably. It's just not the sort of "statement" I want to make.

I did see something at one Catholic church here I've not seen at any other: a sign outside giving dress guidelines. (Kilts are not mentioned...)

BTW Isle Of Skye makes a pretty darn good church tartan, consisting of the main liturgical colours as it does (it only needs one tiny little Gaudete-rose line...)

**Leprechaun 91** · 19th January 16, 03:21 PM

It may seem anathema by some to wear a kilt without a Sgian. Some consider the Sgian in church a violation of the sanctity of the house of worship and the tenants of faith.

I often remove my Sgian from my hose and tuck it in my sporran or my jacket pocket while I am in church. This means others who may be sensitive to the sight of theyt they perceive to be a weapon are not distracted. I do not believe this violates any "Rules" of kilt wearing. The kilt is distracting enough for some. I do not wish to in any way detract from the very reason they are there. ... The ministry.

Just my two pents.

David

**Father Bill** · 19th January 16, 03:27 PM

Various faiths and denominations and even communities of each may indeed have different expectations.

There is no rule that says you should wear a sghian with your kilt. In my denomination and community there is no rule that you can't.

You need to decide what is reasonable. You seem to have a useful plan. Good for you.

**The Wizard of BC** · 19th January 16, 04:47 PM

I don't know who that guy was that came up with all these 'rules'. You must wear this or it's not real if you don't wear it with that. In fact I'd like to meet that guy and introduce him to a Highland Scot of the mid 1700's . I'd love to watch as he tells that Highlander that he is not wearing the 'correct' Tartan or how he is not wearing a 'proper' kilt. He'd probably come home wearing the Scot's Sgian Dubh. --- Firmly stuck between his ribs.

**OC Richard** · 19th January 16, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

I'd like to meet that guy and introduce him to a Highland Scot of the mid 1700's... He'd probably come home wearing the Scot's Sgian Dubh...

Did they exist then?

That would be an interesting little study, looking at 18th century portraits and see if any sginean show up.

**OC Richard** · 19th January 16, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of BC

all these 'rules'... You must wear this or...

I'll have to go back and check, but I think this post is the first in this thread which says anything about anyone "must" wearing anything.

**Panache** · 19th January 16, 10:48 PM

If you consider your knife a weapon, then do not wear it to church. If you consider it a part of highland attire and a decorative tool like a pocket knife then feel free to wear it. If the choice unduly concerns you... Leave it at home and save yourself the stress. In reality, no one much cares either way.

Cheers

Jamie