seeking advise on a formal dirk / dagger

[Pegasys]

I am looking for an opinion on appropriateness of / types of / wisdom of a dress dirk or dagger foremost . I am looking at 2 in particular and welcome the communities thoughts . The prime purpose of either of these is for a formal clan AGM in a couple of months , as well as for use at family clan events . In past photos of my clans AGM's I do see executive board members with dress dirks { I will be up for conmfirmation of an appointed position and admittedly do wish to impress } so I think I'm not too far off in considering this an acceptable , appropriate addendum to my family kilt . I have included the images rather than the URL's so as not to get even close to rule #11 .

claymore dagger .jpgscottish dress dirk .jpg

[davidlpope]

My advice:

Forgo the edged weapons and spend that money on a nice pair of argyle hose, or a bias-cut waistcoat, or a nice vintage dress sporran. For some reason people here in the US seem to gravitate towards the pirate shirt and sword look. Stay as far away from that as you can.

[Pegasys]

I do have a 3 button Prince Charlie Jacket , White formal dress shirt , bow tie , and full mask arctic white fox formal dress sporran form my kiltmaker MacGregor and MacDuff arriving about 10 days before our AGM . I think the only thing I have yet to acquite is a Fly Plain and Brooch . This occasion is sorta a big deal for me and I suspect an equally big deal for CFSNA this year . I sorta knew that when I was asked if I and my wife were attending it was more of a request than a question . Individuals appointed in positions similar to mine have sorely disappointed our clan and our clan president personally in particular . I do appreciate your input .

[Jock Scot]

If a traditional kilt wearing Scot might caution the wearing of the fly plaid and dirk. Many have discovered here, that there is a danger of overdoing these things and is actually counter productive and the "less is more" route is far more effective and less expensive to boot.

[davidlpope]

I agree with Jock. Steer clear of the fly plaid and go with argyle hose and a waistcoat on the bias. The you'll really look like you know what you're doing. 😀

[Pegasys]

I tend to like whats different and new in whatever I do , but the older I get the more I like traditional . It makes me understand how we got to the new and what about the traditional has stayed with us for so long . I think since my elders in the clan are all more traditional it might be best to not stray too far to the modern . Thank You both David and Jock

[Mathew MacKillop]

While I agree with the other posters that a dirk probably isn't necessary, and is toeing the line of "too much", if you absolutely must have one, get one that isn't a stage prop or mere ornament. I would suggest one from Cold Steel; nice to look at, and a very functional knife.

[Tarheel]

I will try to go real "old school" with my views. A person's usefulness is catalogued when they are recognized by a group. This is sometimes considered by the age of the person and his/her ability to enhance the community.

A younger person willing and able to perform for the group usually is considered a "soldier or worker-Bee" and a dirk would be a sign of that position. A more elder person would not need a dirk because their "tool" would be thinking and wisdom.

I would look to the expectations of the group and make my choice of dirk (or not). I would then stick with the traditional dirk to honor the past members that held the position you will be filling. Forgo the fly plaid until later events when you might get called upon to administer for the group.

[OC Richard]

Tradition is a constantly evolving thing, the current thing having behind it a long unbroken chain of antecedents stretching back to an unknown origin.

Going back to one of the earlier links of the chain, plucking it out, and doing it today, isn't traditional because it sets aside the evolution which has occurred between the time of that link, and today.

The wearing of weaponry was commonplace with 19th century formal Highland costume.

But then, around 1900, Highland Dress underwent a near-complete transformation. The Prince Charlie Coatee was a part of the new look; weaponry was not.

The new (post-1900) look was simple and sleek, with weapons, belts, plaids, and other superfluous do-dads done away with.

So to my "eye" (steeped in the appearance of Highland Dress of various periods) it looks anachronistic to wear a Prince Charlie with such do-dads.

Here are some images to make the distinction clear.

19th century Highland costume:

(London 1871)



(Edinburgh)



(Melbourne)



You get the idea... dirk belt, cross belt, sword, dirk, pistols, power-horn, brooch, plaid...

The post-1900 look could hardly have been more different. The kilt, tartan hose, and buckled shoes remain. But the jacket styles are new, the sporran styles are new, and all the accessories are gone, save the sgian.





Highland Evening Dress hasn't undergone any further transformation, really. Prince Charlie Coatees and the small pocket-shaped sealskin silver-cantled sporrans are still with us virtually unchanged since the first decades of the 20th century.

Let's check that statement out. Here's a recently photo of a number of Scottish gents who have worn Highland Dress since they were youths. The main changes are ghillie-ties instead of buckled brogues (though one gent has buckles on his ghillies) and several men wearing selfcoloured hose.

[Pegasys]

OC Richard ... many thanks for those images . Were any of them from books that you could identify ? I have found many rare and out of print books in digital libraries around the world that are quite stunning . I would love to search for those the images came from if possible .