Selvedge or Hem?

[Todd Bradshaw]

I read it and also figured that somebody who knows what they're talking about would be along shortly to answer the question. From a purely cosmetic, non-structural perspective (meaning that I have no clue how much of a problem it creates for the kiltmaker) I would hem it. If you zoom in on the photo there is a pretty obvious cosmetic change in the weave pattern and color along the edge. Unhemmed, it is going to show as such, and I'd personally rather see the normal pattern run all the way down to the bottom of the kilt. Just my two cents though.

[petrabb]

The fabric has a different structure, 'feel' to it, but isn't noticable thinner.
Here are some more pictures to give you an idea:

We were going to leave it unhemmed...

[bonnie heather]

The fabric has a different structure, 'feel' to it, but isn't noticable thinner.
Here are some more pictures to give you an idea:

We were going to leave it unhemmed...

It helps a lot to see the closeup photos as well as seeing how the kilt would look with the selvedge showing.
In my opinion, keeping the selvedge would be a bit jarring to the look of the kilt. I think it would look best to hem it.

[Calico]

It helps a lot to see the closeup photos ... best to hem it.

Not that I'm in Bonnie's league, so my agreeing with her is kind of a rubber stamp, but that selvedge does not look consistent with the rest of the fabric. Best to hem it.

[tundramanq]

A true kilt selvage would be a less visible. This looks like suit material.
A selvage edge holds the pleat better and the swing/swish/waggle of the kilt is better.
I have to be real careful pressing the few hemmed kilts I have - pressing the doubled fabric separately from the rest of the pleat lest I create a visible hem line "bend" on the front surface.

[The Wizard of BC]

OK, as a professional kilt maker let me try to explain why it seems that you are not getting the help you may have expected.

We all have gone through much the same issues and dealt with the same problems you are finding. The saying "Been there, done that" really is true.

But most of us who become professional kilt makers learn some lessons fairly early on.

Lesson 1 - The types of pleating commonly found on the Utility style kilts are not the same as the pleating usually found on a traditional style kilt.
It was not until the advent of the Utilikilt that most people had ever seen the reverse Kingussie style of pleating. But as these kilts are usually less expensive and mass marketed they are often the first kilt many people get. The problem is that when someone starts with a utility style kilt they believe that this pleating style is 'normal'. When they try to make their own kilt they often start out making reverse Kingussie pleating.
The 'normal' style of pleating most of us make are knife pleats (all facing the same direction) somewhere between 3/4" and 1" wide.

Lesson 2 - With the utility style kilts and the lower yardage kilts sometime called 5 yard or casual kilts the pleats are wider than in a 'normal' kilt.
The Utilikit brand kilts have pleats between 2" and 2.5" wide. The 5 yard or casual kilts are an attempt to reduce the cost of the kilt making it more mainstream. To accomplish that they reduce the amount for fabric. To reduce the amount of fabric the pleats are made wider.

Lesson 3 - The Utility style and casual style kilts are usually made with a construction method that we knickname "Jeans made". This means that the strength of the garment comes from the stitching and the fabric itself. Just like blue jeans. If the stitching or the fabric fails or wears through the kilt comes apart.
Traditional kilt makers will usually add some sort of interfacing and stabilizer into the back of the kilt. Most people never know that this internal structure is there because it is hidden underneath the lining. The linings only purpose is to hide this internal construction, but it is very common for some less expensive kilt to be made with a lining and yet have nothing underneath the lining. It is almost like the lining is put in simply because 'normal' kilts have a lining. I have seen linings in some kilts that is not even sewn down. It just sort of floats around the back of the kilt and bunches up causing 'Pillow Butt".

Lesson 4 - In a traditional style kilt, in the back where the pleats are sewn down and tapered, the kilt can get quite thick. So what is done is the inside of the pleats are cut-away to reduce this bulk. This weakens the over all strength of the garment and that is why we have the interfacings and stabilizers built into the kilt. The interfacing acts to give the garment vertical stiffness. (Along the same idea as boning in a corset) The stabilizer is to give horizontal strength so the stress of strapping the kilt on moving are not transferred to the stitching and the outer fabric. It is this internal construction that is the whole secret of the traditional kilt. When you strap the kilt on you are actually wearing the interfacings and stabilizer. The outer fabric floats on top of the internal construction so that it drapes well.

Lesson 5 - What fabric you make your kilt out of really does have a major effect on the overall look and swish of the kilt. We see all the time new people who want to make their own kilt and go to their local fabric store looking for inexpensive fabric.
Kilt fabrics are very specific. As you have found the fabric is woven with a "kilt Selvedge" No hem is necessary and it will not unravel. Kilt fabric is also woven to maximize the drape of the fabric. We call this the 'Swish'. This quality of draping also causes kilt fabric to be weak. Good 16oz wool Tartan can be distorted and deformed with very little pulling. You can do it in your fingers. This is another reason for the internal construction.

Lesson 6 - Good, high quality fabrics are actually easier to work with than thinner or lighter weight fabrics. Good quality kilt wool will form and hold a pleat crease for a very long time.
This is perhaps the single hardest lesson for us to pass on to new folks. If you are going to go through all the work of making a kilt your really and truly owe it to yourself to use the highest quality fabrics that you can afford. We buy fabrics for kilts double width so need to buy only 4 yards on average. The difference in total cost between fabric store fabrics and high quality kilt fabrics is actually far less than most people think.
And high quality fabrics are a dream to work with. I started making kilts from the lower priced stuff. Once I got some good kilt fabric I was amazed at how much easier it was to work with. The fabric does not slip around while I try to sew straight lines, the needle slides through it like butter and in the end the result is so much nicer.

We hear all the time folks saying that they just want to make a practice kilt. The answer from a professional is that there is no such thing as a practice kilt. If you are going to go through all the trouble of making something do you not want the finished product, the thing you will strap on, to look as good as all the work you put into it? If you make a practice kilt it will look like a practice kilt when you wear it.

Ok, that is my response to your wondering why more of the professionals are not chiming in on your threads. We are being polite. We have all seen and heard this before. Time and time again folks come to us asking us to critique their kilts and offer our help. The only way we can help is to keep silent. As soon as we speak we will almost always come across sounding snobbish.

We are practicing the old adage "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."

And look, I just sounded like a snob. And I apologize for that.

[OC Richard]

I don't think you sounded like a snob. You sounded like an informed experienced person. Those less-informed and experienced would do well to listen... it's why we teach, so that the mistakes of the past don't have to be repeated by each generation.

As a mere kilt-wearer, I'll say that I don't like the way hemmed kilts feel when I wear them. I don't like the way they look, either. (I'm talking 8-yard traditional kilts, but with a hem.)

But the OP's fabric has an obvious selvedge that, in my opinion, would make the finished kilt look odd.

I myself would go with different fabric.

[petrabb]

Steve,
We didn't think you sounded snobbish at all!
You poured your heart out, and we found it very valuable.
We will take every lesson you carefully pointed out, to heart.
You may have mistaken what we are trying to accomplish here, it is not to make a utility kilt.
Actually, the fabric I'm working with is a good quality 100% wool and certainly not cheap.
That said, it is obviously not tartan kilt material, but that is what my husband wanted.
We are trying to do this the right way, but lacking knowledge, and learning. Forgive us.
I hope you will be pleased to see how we are progressing.

[Jock Scot]

Steve,
We didn't think you sounded snobbish at all!
You poured your heart out, and we found it very valuable.
We will take every lesson you carefully pointed out, to heart.
You may have mistaken what we are trying to accomplish here, it is not to make a utility kilt.
Actually, the fabric I'm working with is a good quality 100% wool and certainly not cheap.
That said, it is obviously not tartan kilt material, but that is what my husband wanted.
We are trying to do this the right way, but lacking knowledge, and learning. Forgive us.
I hope you will be pleased to see how we are progressing.

I am really glad that you have taken Steve's words as you have. In my humble opinion and speaking as one who has trouble threading a needle Steve's words in that post are some of the very best advice that I have seen on this website and far from "snobby".

[Pleater]

If the edge is rather hard and ungiving, I'd be inclined to remove some of the threads - I'd most likely pull up loops of the most noticeable thread and then use a sharp point and scissors to pick them out all the way along - it is just the sort of thing I would do in order to make the best edge, and if there was a distinct difference after that then I would hem it, as the edge would be a lot softer after the unpicking.
Here's one I did earlier

Anne the Pleater