Do any of the weathered tartans have official clan recognition?

[Willie T]

I recently found out that the clan I'm descended from, Clan Mackintosh, only recognizes four official tartans - the Clan Modern, Clan Ancient, Hunting Modern, and Hunting Ancient - but the Weathered Clan and Weathered Hunting do not have official recognition. Is that the case with most weathered tartans for other clans?

[Jock Scot]

I cannot speak for Clan Mackintosh, but I suspect the omission may just be an oversight. On the other hand the Clan Chief may have a real dislike to the weathered hues, I don't know. I wonder if our resident expert on that particular Clan may venture a comment? As far as I am aware and speaking generally, weathered Clan tartans are really a non issue.

[figheadair]

I agree with Jock, generally speaking Weathered hues are generally a personal fancy. Essentially they are the same tartan although technically one could argue that, unlike Modern, Ancient and Muted shades, Weathered colours are actually a colour change, brown for black etc., and not just a shade change; light, dark or mid. However, going down that route would be a whole world of pain so we classify Weathered shades like the others, as merely a shade variation of X tartan.

[Macman]

I am not the resident expert of whom Jock speaks, but I had never heard that the weathered tartans were not officially recognized by the chief. I happily wear my weathered hunting Mackintosh.

[ThistleDown]

It is just personal preference, as has been noted. The present chief prefers this red Mackintosh for himself.

[Balaamsass51]

"Official clan recognition" is a bit tricky. If there is a living clan chief he (or she) decides on the "official" clan tartan. Which might be (and has been) changed when a new chief takes over. Remember, the over 11,500 current registered tartans are all unique by virtue of how they are woven. I'm taking thread counts. Not color. Tartan is not the color. Weaving patterns only say red, black, green etc. Some will specify dark or light colors.

So there are at least two things to consider - if you buy tartan, each mills dyes will differ. A red from Locharron will be different than a red from Marton Mills which will be different than a red from House of Edgar etc. So get a swath before ordering. (Also that red dye will change over time from the same mill, which is why when you buy that kilt from Locharron and then decide 10 years later that you need a fly plaid, they will not match).

More importantly, since tartan is not any specific color (yellow is 597-577 angstroms in wavelength, blue 492-456 angstroms for instance) the mills may make any tartan up in any "color" that is within those wavelengths. So, how do we sell more tartan? Why, weave the same tartan in different hues, tints, shades and tones of course!

So "Ancient" simply means the mill is trying to replicate what they think the tartan would have looked like in the original organic dyes (resulting in lighter colors which many prefer because you can see the patterns better - admit it, those blocks of black, green, blue pretty much blend together) Or "Weathered", they try and replicate what the thing would look like if left out in the sun or was washed with lye soap a hundred times. Other designations such as "muted" are simply nomenclature changes by different mills.

Bottom line - if you like it wear it.

Matt

[figheadair]

Remember, the over 11,500 current registered tartans are all unique by virtue of how they are woven. I'm taking thread counts. Not color. Tartan is not the color. Weaving patterns only say red, black, green etc. Some will specify dark or light colors.

Hummm. Not sure where this 11,500 figure comes from but it's considerably higher that the number of tartans recorded by either the Scottish Tartans Authority or the National Register of Tartans, both are somewhere in the 7000s. It is not correct to say that they are all unique by virtue of their threadcount: 42nd/Campbell/Sutherland/Munro Hunting/Grant Hunting are all the same sett. Similarly, Drummond and Grant, there are other too.

Tartan is absolutley about colour; i.e. generic colour terminology as opposed to shade or hue. For example, red is red but it can be scarlet, claret, ruby, crimson, pink and at it's simplest each shade can be light, medium or dark.

So "Ancient" simply means the mill is trying to replicate what they think the tartan would have looked like in the original organic dyes (resulting in lighter colors which many prefer because you can see the patterns better - admit it, those blocks of black, green, blue pretty much blend together)

And this is one of the major errors inthe understanding of natural dyes, the shades available from them and the way that they were traditionally combined in tartan.

Or "Weathered", they try and replicate what the thing would look like if left out in the sun or was washed with lye soap a hundred times. Other designations such as "muted" are simply nomenclature changes by different mills.

Not quite. The Weathered range was originally the response by Locharron et al to Dalgliesh's Reporduction rangewhich was copyright. Neither laying out in the sun or washing would result in the colour changes, yes I mean colour changes not shade or hue, that are found in the Reproduction or Weathered ranges.

Bottom line - if you like it wear it.

Absolutely!

[Balaamsass51]

5/12/2016 Scottish register of Tartans "Daughter of Mull" #11,537.

Each is unique, calling something by different names does not change the thing. Call me Matt, Matthew, Phil, Philip or Mr. Heady I am still the same person. The Scottish Tartan Authority official tartan was originally Wilson #70 for instance. Same tartan.

My point about color is that saying something is red doesn't mean much all by itself.

I never said that "ancient" WAS the original colors, just that the mills are trying to replicate what they think are the original colors.

Quotes from "Tartan For Me" Expanded ninth edition; Philip D. Smith, Jr. PhD, FSTS, GTS, FSA Scot:

"Tartan is woven in four basic shades: (1) The brighter and darker "modern" hues made possible by new dyes after 1855 and (2) the softer "ancient" colors which show the pattern better and became more popular in the 1950's and '60's. (3) The shades known as "muted" and (4) the "Reproduction" (copyright D.
C. Dangleish, Ltd.) and "weathered" colors are imitation of tartan long exposed to sun, rain or soil. For simple visual identification, the red is more orange colored when called "ancient"; blues and greens are woven as gray and brown in the "reproduction" and "weathered" colors. Every mill will have its distinctive and unique color palates."

"The key to tartan identification is in the pattern. A single pattern can be woven in large or small scale in any of the many color possibilities. These variations will visually appear to be very different but are all correct representations of the save tartan. As long as the shades of color fall within the broad spectrum specified, it is the pattern, not the width of the sett nor the shade of color which identifies the tartan. The so-called "Ancient Smith" and "Smith" tartans are the same, simply different color versions of the pattern."

"All words AFTER the clan/family name refer only to the color shades with which it is woven. Examples are "Modern" or "Ordinary", "Ancient", Muted", "Reproduction" or "Weathered". Examples might be "Forbes, Reproduction colors" and "MasGill, Ancient Colors". Absence of any color descriptor implies "modern" colors."

So again, the different palettes used by the mills are trying to accomplish different things. They are not creating different tartans. More choices, more opportunity to sell more tartan. More choices for us. Wear what you like (if not a restricted tartan of course).

figheadair, thank you for the interesting discussion.

Matt

[figheadair]

5/12/2016 Scottish register of Tartans "Daughter of Mull" #11,537.

Yes, but they started at 10,000

[Balaamsass51]

one new tartan registered every other day. impressive. of course many are made that are not registered.