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  1. #21
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    That style jacket is very similar to a 1859-1865 New York State Militia Jacket, worn by many of the State Militia's during the American Civil War. Referred to as the 5 button shell, it was work mainly by infantry and artillery of Northern Militias, complete with the light blue piping for infantry and the red piping for artillery. Cavalry used a much short shell with yellow trim that varied in the number of buttons. Buttons often were Waterford brass muffin or dome, with state militia crests. Only slight difference, US model did not have breast pockets, and not buttons on breast pockets, instead it had a inside pocket that opened at the seam of the opening of the jacket over the left breast, with not button, pocket was very deep. On the sleeves you had THREE smaller style cuff buttons, brass dome/.muffin style with same state crests. All had the high collar, and epaulets, just as this jacket has. Same jackets were worn, after the US Civil War by the Fenians who raided Ridgway in Canada in 1867, under John O'Neil.

    Such jackets were used in place of the sack or frock, because it served as both dress and fatigue. VERY VERY similar. if not exact.
    Last edited by CollinMacD; 6th February 17 at 11:26 AM.
    Thank you,

    Allan Collin MacDonald
    Old Dominion State, Virginia

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CollinMacD View Post
    That style jacket is very similar to a 1859-1865 New York State Militia Jacket, worn by many of the State Militia's during the American Civil War.
    You must be referring to the 79th New York Volunteer Infantry they were the only recorded unit in US military to be kilted.
    They wore the Cameron tartan and the majority of the unit was Scottish immigrants or 1st gen US Scots.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Show me a man that would jump from a airplane, I will show you a man that will fight"

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    You must be referring to the 79th New York Volunteer Infantry they were the only recorded unit in US military to be kilted.
    They wore the Cameron tartan and the majority of the unit was Scottish immigrants or 1st gen US Scots.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That is a bit too flashy for my tastes, but by God, I'd love to have that uniform to wear on occasion just to do it.
    n/OblSB

  6. #24
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    I agree it is a bit too flashy but that was the style of uniforms for the 1860s. Now this particular photo is not my collection, I honestly do not know whose it is but the person put a lot of work into gain it historically correct. Yes I do like the stand-up collar on the patrol jacket and the the blue trim are the original jacket I posted.
    "Show me a man that would jump from a airplane, I will show you a man that will fight"

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  8. #25
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    No I was not. The 79th, like other units such as the 5th NYSV, 83 Pennsylvania, 5th Massachusetts, 76 Pennsylvania, 114th Pennsylvania (Colliers Zouaves), 69th NYSM, and so on all had very unique militia uniforms that were more for the parade ground then for battle.
    The Militia Jackets accepted by the Union Army, per General Order of Standard Uniform Acceptance of 1861 were similar to the original uniform jacket, not that of the 79th, The accepted Militia Jacket was of a dark navy blue broadcloth (steamed and pressed wool), with only a small amount of piping around the color, and lower cuffs and had a waist belt tab on the right side which the belt would pass through, like an epaulette used to support the belt because the cartridge box, cap box, and bayonet scabbard was all on the belt, the cartridge box was not worn over the should like the standard army dress. It allowed the soldier better movement when turning side to side then the should harness cartridge box sling. The uniform you showed, was NEVER worn by the 79th during service in Washington DC or while serving in the Army of the Potomac, 2nd Corps. The 79th did have standard frock coats, and sack coats, but did try to wear their Truws with the Cameron tartan, but this was very short lived as I will explain. The actual jacket that you showed actually originated from France, even through it was purchased by the 79th Camerons, the jackets were produced pre-Civil War, as the Camerons established a drill team and pipe band in upper state New York, do Military Drill competitions which was the big thing just before the Civil War. Various ethnic groups established their very own Drill and drum fife bands and competed against each other. One of the judging criteria was the originality and display of their uniforms. The most famous was Col Elmer Ellsworth, 11th NY "Fire Zouaves, that was a very well established drill team.

    Here is the full story about the uniform you have pictured above, taken from the 79th New York Volunteer Regimental History:

    hen the organization had their first drill on October 25, 1858, the men were in civilian clothing as uniforms were not yet available. As per the guide lines set by the New York Militia, the Highland Guard was to uniform their soldiers in tartan trousers, not kilts. The inspector was informed by Col. McLeays (first commanding officer pre-Civil War) that:

    "Their stuff for trousers was expected to arrive from Scotland daily, when they would immediately put their uniforms under contract for manufacture". Report of inspection, 4th Brigade, NYSM, 25 October, in annual report of the AG,NYS, (1858) The issued uniform as per the New York State Militia agreement consisted of these items:

    Jacket

    The pre-war jacket worn was dark blue with red cuffs and collar which were trimmed with white piping. The jacket itself was trimmed with red wool cording on the edges and around the circumference of the cuffs. It had 18 NY-30 (New York State) buttons in all with 9 2.20 cm (7/8 in) buttons down the front and two on the rear and 3 1.50 cm (5/8 in) buttons on each cuff, 1 1.50 cm (5/8 in) button on the left hip for the belt loop. The jacket was lined in tan polished cotton with quilting in the front panels that extended over and onto the back of the shoulders, following the breast panels. The Inverness flaps were lined with red wool or polished cotton. (Two different materials used on both of the two pre-war jackets still known to exist.)

    Trews

    Cameron of Erracht trousers in the large military sett with a tartan repeat of nine inches. The tartan was matched and had Victorian trousers cut to them consistent with common trousers of the late 1850s.

    Glengarry

    The glengarry was knit and felted as one cover. Dicing and body as one piece. It was dark blue with dicing that was red, blue, and white, in two rows high that was off set by one square to the right. The glengarry was lined in black polished cotton and while some of the originals that still exist today have quilting and other lining decorations, all five have different lining treatments.

    Leathers

    The belts used were common M1839 "baby" US" belts that were 1.5 inches. Also used were Springfield bayonets and scabbards with the various models of .69 weapons, shield pattern cap pouches, and the M1857 cartridge box.

    Parade uniform

    When on parade the 79th wore the kilt, going against the wishes of the New York Militia.

    This uniform used the same jacket and glengarry but instead of trousers made of tartan, they had New York tailors make non-regulation kilts.

    Kilts

    The kilts were made of the same Cameron of Erracht. They were not pleated to the line as is common in military regiments, but to the sett as seen in civilian kilts. The kilts were very odd and unlike any kilt before or since thanks to their unqualified manufactures. They were box pleated, and used two tartan straps that buckled into suspender buckles on either hip. Because of their lack in size variation, suspenders were worn with them.

    Sporran

    The sporran was made of nappy white horse hair with three black tassels with a black leather cantle.

    Original glengarry information: http://emuseum.nyhistory.org

    Hose and flashes

    Common Victorian red and white diced hose with common Victorian flashes.

    Shoes

    Low cut false buckle shoes

    Please note, what was described above NEVER MADE IT SOUTH when the regiment mustered into service. The tartan trousers and some glengarries were worn, but disappeared rather quickly once the regiment mustered in under Col William T. Sherman. This was not well accepted by the men of the regiment, and was one of the reasons, along with not understanding their enlistment contracts into the Union Army that became known as the 79th Mutiny of August 1861.

    The 79th NYSV was an early war regiment that served original under LT Col Samuel MacKenzie Elliiot, then under James Cameron soon after, who was killed at Bull Run. who served in the battalion under the command of Colonel Willian T. Sherman,. After Bull Run the command was given to a career officer, Col. Isaac Stevens, who was shot and killed leading the regiment at the Battle of Oxen Hill, Chantilly, Va. The 79th, NEVER wore their Kilts while in service with the Army of the Potomac. After the Battle of Bull Run, July 1861, this regiment among others fell under the command of the General George McCullen, who for months determined to make sure the army was trained. It was during this time the 79th was known to have mutinied against General McCullen as the General established a General Order that established a standard Union uniform among several other reasons having to do with their enlistments and service. If I remember correctly about 29 members of the regiment were sent to a Union Prison Camp in Florida, and their Regimental Colors were taken from them and kept by General McCullen ons returned back the 79th when the Regiment proved itself in battle. So in absence of regimental colors, the 79th, using one of their kilts on a long stick as their own battle flag. During the mutiny, the regiment simply left camp and started marching back to New York, where they were surround by Union forces, and surrounded. However, they were allowed to were a form of TRUWS, which were the standard union Kersey Blue or Sky Blue trouser with a 1/2 inch seam of the Cameron Tartan running the length of the trouser. One of the senior officers was suppose to have been put in front of a firing squad, but instead was discharged dishonorably. The 79th returned to duty and did adapted the Union Uniform. However, this order did not apply to certain Zouave and Headquarter Guard units that maintained their own personal uniforms. It was not until the end of the Civil War, when the 79th marching in the Grand Review, a Scottish Women Society of New York City sent them Glengarries they wore marching back into New York City for its final muster and disbanded. This was the only time since Bull Run the 79th was known to have worn any deviation form the Union Uniform.

    The 79th was known to have socialized heavily with the 69th, 88th, 83rd NY and the 28th and 9th Massachusettes, as these are Irish Regiment serving in the same Corp. Gaelic was spoken and often orders given in the Gaelic. The Irish Regiments did carry the green flag, and the 79th did carry one of the kilts on a flagstaff, but this tradition became short lived, as the casualties of the 79th mounded by 1862 more Dutch (German) and English were mustard into the Regiment thinking the ranks of the Scottish.
    Last edited by CollinMacD; 6th February 17 at 07:09 PM.
    Thank you,

    Allan Collin MacDonald
    Old Dominion State, Virginia

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    For those that are pipers, what is your thoughts of a jacket like this one?
    Attachment 30056
    https://www.jhiggins.net/kilt-jackets/
    I like them. I have a forest green "patrol tunic" that I got from Burnett's & Struth a few years ago. I only wear it to pipe and in the winter, which means I've worn it rarely. I just took a look at the website and it appears they no longer sell the tunic. But, the one at J. Higgins looks very similar. The tunic I got fit to a T, but I was not happy with the level of service I received, as I was not aware of all the options, such as piping, etc. I think because I was just one customer versus a purchaser for a whole pipe band, I didn't get enough email time with the selected sales person.
    Last edited by Jack Daw; 7th February 17 at 05:47 AM.
    Steve "Jack Daw" McIntyre
    "The honour the Sleat carpenter obtained...is still preserved for his descendants." Duncan Ban MacIntyre

  11. #27
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    29th March 07
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    My patrols Jacket was made in 1939 got some pics somewhere

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Nervous Jock; 13th February 17 at 01:39 PM.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    For those that are pipers, what is your thoughts of a jacket like this one?

    https://www.jhiggins.net/kilt-jackets/
    I love it...

    I'm a side drummer in a pipe band, and I love those Tunics...I think that they are sharp, sharp, sharp. As a band we have several different uniforms. We have khaki shirts with horse hair diced tops, and spats, Short sleeve (with band logo) belt and black day sporran, black Argyle with vest and long tie or bow tie, and 4 color of hose, but with all that I'd STILL LOVE to have one of these jackets...

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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumper View Post
    For those that are pipers, what is your thoughts of a jacket like this one?

    https://www.jhiggins.net/kilt-jackets/
    I'm not a piper, but I really like this jacket. I think the piping looks great.
    Walkman
    ___________________
    "Who knows only his own generation remains always a child." - George Norlin

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