X Marks the Scot - An on-line community of kilt wearers.

   X Marks Partners - (Go to the Partners Dedicated Forums )
USA Kilts website Freedom Kilts website Scotweb websiten Burnetts and Struth website Kilt Society website
The Scottish Trading Company Xmarks advertising information MacGregor and MacDuff Xmarks advertising information Celtic Croft website

User Tag List

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 31 to 39 of 39
  1. #31
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    6,816
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I will take the title of this forum literally (putting it on properly) and mention that only the jacket shown by Jock a couple posts above is a Blue Patrols jacket.

    Which is to say, Blue Patrols isn't a general or vague notion but a specific sort of dress in the British Highland regiments (and perhaps others, I don't know) worn by Officers.

    Interestingly, the blue patrol jacket isn't worn with kilts, but with trews.

    The exception is certain Pipe Majors who also happen to be Officers.

    Here's another photo of an actual Blue Patrols tunic



    Here's Pipe Major Captain Gavin Stoddart wearing his blue patrols. Note that no waistbelt/dirk belt is worn with blue patrols, the dirk suspended by internal means.

    Last edited by OC Richard; 26th May 17 at 06:12 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first white settlers on the Guyandotte

  2. The Following User Says 'Aye' to OC Richard For This Useful Post:


  3. #32
    Join Date
    22nd January 15
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Enjoying this thread, thanks to all for discussion/sharing.

    Slightly off topic...

    I'd like to mention Pipe Major Captain Gavin Stoddart, a true gentleman and a gifted piper/composer.
    I had the privilege to study under him at one of the US National Piping Center summer programs.
    His graciousness with all beginners and encouragement to seasoned players will never be forgotten!
    A truly remarkable man, emulating him in a small way would see a life well lived!

  4. #33
    Join Date
    14th October 16
    Location
    Goderich ont
    Posts
    105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Highland regiments wear blue patrols with kilts or trews, not just trews. Depending on the specific regiment it changes with battalion dress orders. It is generally worn by officers carrying out certain duties as well as NCO's. I know this to be fact because I still have the jacket I wore and I was never a commissioned officer or RSM etc. Patrols are not limited to the Highland regiments either, they are quite common across the British army ie: Brigade of Guards etc, but are not cut away for the sporran.

  5. The Following User Says 'Aye' to 48HofC For This Useful Post:


  6. #34
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    6,816
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by 48HofC View Post
    Highland regiments...
    I should have specified that I was speaking of the Highland regiments of the British army.

    Of course I'm just an American who never served in a Highland regiment of the British army. All I have to go on is photographs and what I've read. And absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, as they say. But I can't ever recall seeing a photograph of a Highland officer wearing kilts with blue patrols, except for Pipe Majors who have attained officer rank.

    That goes back to the 19th century to today. The Royal Regiment Of Scotland's No. 15 dress is blue patrols, and trews are worn.

    For sure in Canada patrol dress had been extended far beyond its British scope- I've seen pipe bands with the pipers in black patrol jackets and the drummers in red patrol jackets, etc.

    Some nice photos...

    In the 19th century the patrol jackets often had decoration; remember these were non-regulation at this time, and that officers privately purchased their uniforms. Barnes states that blue patrols were repeatedly banned but remained extremely popular with officers nevertheless.



    Here is the modern style with pockets. You can also see the shell jackets which were also popular and privately purchased by officers.



    In colour (note here as in many other cases senior noncommissioned officers wearing things normally associated with officers)

    Last edited by OC Richard; 26th May 17 at 06:13 PM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first white settlers on the Guyandotte

  7. #35
    Join Date
    14th October 16
    Location
    Goderich ont
    Posts
    105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was referring to all Highland regiments, not specifically Canadian. If you want to see an example of a corporal in patrols and a kilt, google- Gordon Walker 1995 northern meeting, and you'll see the wee corporal from the RSF dressed as I have mentioned. You can't go directly by the online RRS manual, because it does not have all variations of dress covered due to peculiarities of differences in the antecedent regiments. In Canada, the only patrols in the military that are worn are blue, civilians wear black, red, etc.

  8. #36
    Join Date
    22nd July 08
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    93
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Dear 48HofC,

    just to clarify the issue of wearing Blue Patrol jacket in scottish (Highland) regiments of British army (at least after WWII until today), I would like to quote Gordon Walker himself where he explained wearing of blue patrol on Northern Meeting 1995 that you refer to: " ...I am writing in response to your article above and wish to set the record straight regarding the wearing of ”The Blue Patrol” Jacket within the ranks of my regiment, The Royal Highland Fusiliers. This form of dress is laid down clearly and documented within the dress rules and regulations of the regiment, and is worn by senior ranks from Sergeant’s to Officers mainly on administration day’s. For your information though, regimental H.Q. had granted permission for me to wear this jacket in competition at the time when I was Pipe Corporal, alleviating the constraints of wearing the full dress order of plaid, cross belt/waist belt etc. and therefore an appointment was arranged with the regimental tailor for me to be measured and fitted with said jacket for the purposes of representing the regiment in solo piping competitions"

    so it was definitely an exception to the general rule.

    full text Gordon Walker letter could be found on this link:
    https://pipingpress.com/highland-dre...gordon-walker/

    best regards,
    Mikhail
    Last edited by blackwatch70; 30th May 17 at 02:33 AM.

  9. #37
    Join Date
    14th October 16
    Location
    Goderich ont
    Posts
    105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Dear Black watch 70,,,
    My reply was about how the jacket was worn by others than just officers in trews, and you pointed out quite well that sergeants wear them as well. In hindsight I should not have used Gordon Walker as an example, and I apologize to anyone that might have been offended by my poor judgement.

  10. #38
    Join Date
    18th October 09
    Location
    Orange County California
    Posts
    6,816
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There are quite a few things about the dress of senior Sergeants (and in some cases all Sergeants) in the Scottish Highland regiments which were in line with that of Officers rather than Other Ranks.

    Examples abound, such as the kilt panels and badger sporrans of the Argylls, the kilt bows of the Black Watch, and so forth.

    Another thing I've noticed is senior Sergeants wearing kilts of the fabric used by Officers.

    An interesting thing was the distinctive sporran of the Argylls worn only by certain senior Sergeants. In photographs taken in the period between the 1881 amalgamation and the withdraw of Full Dress in 1914 these can be seen worn by the Pipe Major, Drum Major, Band Master, Colour Sergeant, and I don't know who. The PM and DM continued this (but with different cantles).





    So it's not surprising to see Patrol Dress be worn by Sergeants.

    But traditionally it was thought of as Officer's undress, worn in the Officers Mess for example, paid for privately, and not an issued uniform of the entire regiment.

    Barnes says of the matter

    "The blue frock coat... became so popular after the Napoleonic Wars that there was difficulty preventing its use on nearly all parades. It dates back to about the beginning of the 19th century, and even in the previous century Generals and other Officers had blue undress coats. In spite of being abolished several times it survived well into the 20th century. It was worn by Highland Officers with peaked cap and tartan trews."

    Barnes, writing around 1953 when the new No1 Dress was just being adopted by the British Army, says

    "In Canada No1 or Patrol Dress is usually a blue frock with dress sporran, sword, white spats, and Glengarry- no cross belts, waist belt, or sash." (Mention of sword, cross belt, and sash implies an Officer.)

    So even in 1953 there was a Scottish/Canadian divide in how Blue Patrol Dress jackets were worn.
    Last edited by OC Richard; 30th May 17 at 06:11 AM.
    Proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; son of the Revolution and Civil War; first white settlers on the Guyandotte

  11. #39
    Join Date
    17th January 11
    Location
    Berlin and Dresden, Germany
    Posts
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Blue Patrol

    Quote Originally Posted by Piobair View Post
    Some will disagree, but I'm not a fan. Jackets like this have become part of a trend in the pipe band world where service bands increasingly choose kit that's not quite civilian, not quite military, and wind up with a look that can 100% tacky. Usually there are spats with solid colored hose involved and hackles sticking out of something. It looks a lot like adults playing dress up, which maybe it is.

    I have respect for bands that go for full No. 1, but those uniforms can be hard to wear and expensive, especially if they're intended to fit correctly. The minute I see a band kitted out in in aviator shirts and horsehair sporrans or poorly tailored Pakistani doublets, I know exactly what I'm going to hear - and it's usually rough. I appreciate that military uniforms look cool - I have yet to see a picture of Gavin Stoddard from back in the day that didn't make me wish I had a job that allowed me to dress like that. But I would never play at a competition in one of those uniforms. I periodically wear No 1 to play at a wedding or something, but even then the goal is to keep it as close to MOD as possible without wearing an actual regiment's gear.

    If someone was really into that look and doesn't want to become a piper, why not join SAMS or something and commit to really nailing it?
    At a time when British soldiers had to wear uniform at all times, the blue patrol was ideal for the Undress uniform. We did not have to wear spats with our trews. Our pipers wore lovat green hose without spats.
    Last edited by theborderer; 2nd June 17 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Mistakes in meaning

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.2.0