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  1. #1
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    North Eastern Scotland Plaids?

    Would people in the North Eastern Scotland have worn the Great Kilt?

    Curios as I have seen people saying the Great Kilt was only worn in the Western Highlands but I have seen other sources saying they were worn in the Highlands and the small poorer Communities in the Northern Lowlands. By Northern Lowlands I am guessing they mean North Eastern Scotland because it is often left out of the Highlands.

    Im just curios because my ancestors came from Arberchirder in Aberdeen which prior to the 75 rebellion was a small farming community so I'm curios as to what they would of worn. I am led to believe they did wear Highland dress as I saw a post on the forum saying that the modern Kilt didn't become popular until the 20th Century, But I have seen a painting of the Old Marnoch Church with people in tradition Highland Dress in the 1840s, So my guess is they wore it as soon as it was unbanned because it's what their great grandparents wore etc.

    So who should I believe? The people who say it was only worn in the Western Highlands, Or the people who say it was worn in the Highlands and Poorer parts of the Northern Lowlands?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also note the unusual Traditional Dress most people are wearing, Seems to be a Bonnet, Traditional style Trews and a plaid on the shoulder, And only one boy is wearing a Kilt. I should also note, The picture is set in the 1840's but im not sure when it was created, But by the art style it seems it was made around that time period.

  2. #2
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    Your dating of the photo seems accurate - 1841. I found it on this web page. http://www.rothi.co.uk/people16.html

    Interesting question. I look forward to reading the replies.
    President, Clan Buchanan Society International

  3. #3
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    I've never heard the term "Northern Lowlands" and I don't think you can assume that it refers to the Northeast in general which, although it has a good deal of rich agricultural land,
    http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/02/...3_0a591fad.jpg
    extends westwards into the large swathe of the eastern Highlands that defines the Grampian Mountains. e.g. Lochnagar, Ben Macdui, Beinn a' Bhuird
    http://www.scotlandinprint.co.uk/med...ar-photo-1.jpg
    http://www.munromagic.com/MunroImages/MM7975.jpg
    http://www.braemarhighlandsafaris.co...d-River-De.jpg
    Highland dress would certainly have been worn and Gaelic spoken west of, say, Aboyne until relatively recently.
    However, Aberchirder (always known around here as "Foggie"!) shown in the first picture is indeed somewhat pastoral and I doubt if tartan was ever the norm in those parts - I suspect the picture may have been painted with some licence at a later date.

    Alan
    Last edited by neloon; 6th December 16 at 11:13 AM.

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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by neloon View Post
    I've never heard the term "Northern Lowlands" and I don't think you can assume that it refers to the Northeast in general which, although it has a good deal of rich agricultural land,
    http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/02/...3_0a591fad.jpg
    extends westwards into the large swathe of the eastern Highlands that defines the Grampian Mountains. e.g. Lochnagar, Ben Macdui, Beinn a' Bhuird
    http://www.scotlandinprint.co.uk/med...ar-photo-1.jpg
    http://www.munromagic.com/MunroImages/MM7975.jpg
    http://www.braemarhighlandsafaris.co...d-River-De.jpg
    Highland dress would certainly have been worn and Gaelic spoken west of, say, Aboyne until relatively recently.
    However, Aberchirder (always known around here as "Foggie"!) shown in the first picture is indeed somewhat pastoral and I doubt if tartan was ever the norm in those parts - I suspect the picture may have been painted with some licence at a later date.

    Alan
    Im curios about Aberchirder or "Foggieloan" because it only became a village in 1764, Prior to that it was just a small farming town. And when I see someone say that the kilt was worn in rural parts of the "Lowlands" it made me think they probably did wear it prior to it's ban and becoming a village.

    And when I say "Northern Lowlands" I mean the flat areas of the North East which was not only geographically different from the Highlands but also Culturally different.

    I'm trying to find who made that picture and when and ill post once I find out.
    PROUD descendent of the Innes Clan! and a Yorkshireman! Or maybe I'm a.... Yorkshire Clansman?

  6. #5
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    Aberchirder was known as Foggieloan prior to 1823 when it was renamed and according to the information I can find "Foggie" was "created " in 1764.

    That aside I've recently read a book on a school in the outer Hebrides, where in the Hebridies by 1900 the general practice was children wore kilts but adults wore trousers. This may explain some aspects of the picture.
    Also to a certain extent the protestant churches were controlled by Edinburgh headquarters / majority population which frowned upon the kilt.

    The area you are talking about is part of the crossover between the highlands and east coast communities, the coastal communities are much more connected with the outside world, intermingling with not just lowland families but those further away due to the fishing industry. But I wouldn't call the area as part of the Scottish lowlands.

    Even as early as the 1700s the influence of southerners "fashionable" dress in trousers was spreading north and west before the clothing restrictions.

    The Scottish lowlands are generally thought as below the Forth and Clyde, with a cross over area maybe including Fife and Stirlingshire. There isn't a border marked saying highlands this way, lowlands that ( except in advertising blurb).

    While the area is more farming than crofting, it is part of the highlands, Gaelic was spoken much more there then, than now. As to what your ancestors wore, you'll never know. It could be some form of kilt or trousers or if wealthy ( or skillful enough with the needle) either when it suited.
    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give"
    Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill

  7. #6
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	29539 this is what im referring too when I say North East is the Lowlands, It's more of a Cultural thing I think but im not sure now. I do know that it is technically the Highlands.

    Im mainly interested in what they wore because im interested in how they lived overall, Food they would of eaten, Clothes they wore, Language they spoke etc. etc. (All between the 16th-18th century as those time periods interest me the most)
    PROUD descendent of the Innes Clan! and a Yorkshireman! Or maybe I'm a.... Yorkshire Clansman?

  8. #7
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    I'd say that is more like the situation today, rather than a hundred or more years ago.
    Farming wise, yes the light green areas are / were more farming than crofting, but culturally the Gaelic language was much more common than today spreading towards the coasts north of Fife.

    However that map is a neat straight line, in general you didn't cross the road to find a different language and culture, as you approched the east more would speak English / Inglis /Scots less would speak the Gaelic.
    I suspect it's based on this map

    However if you look at this DNA map

    You'll see the North East Scotland 1 / 2 DNA is much more resticted to part of Aberdeenshire and Bamffshire roughly, but the triangle for the Gaelic (NI / W Scotland) DNA goes right out to the coast (though they could do with more samples for the area we are looking at, on this map).
    and finally this map
    .
    shows that the Old county boundaries crossed both the Highland and lowlands of the first map further bluring the definition of what each is.
    If you look at this site http://www.foggieloan.co.uk/, You'll see that the New town was created by Alexander Gordon, the laird of Auchintoul, and the Gordon clan is shown firmly on the highland side of the clan map.

    So which language did they speak, primarily we don't know, but likely to be the Gaelic as their first language, but also they were likely to be able to speak the local Dialect of English.

    What clothes did they wear, well New Foggie was created 1764, After the '45, so then the most likely the standard clothes of trousers and shirt, (even after the restrictions were dropped). But as you say your ancesters were there before the planned town of Foggie, and we have no way of knowing for certain what your ancesters Pre the 45 chose to wear as the area was a mix of cultures.

    Food, it would depend on how wealthy they were and what they did for a living, certainly from looking at whats on the Foggie site, they would have grown there own veg in their gardens, oats would have been a cheap filler, potatos were known by 1600, so by 1700 it is possible they grew those, how much meat and fish depended on wealth.
    "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give"
    Sir Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill

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  10. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by YorkshireClansman View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	29539 this is what im referring too when I say North East is the Lowlands, It's more of a Cultural thing I think but im not sure now. I do know that it is technically the Highlands.

    Im mainly interested in what they wore because im interested in how they lived overall, Food they would of eaten, Clothes they wore, Language they spoke etc. etc. (All between the 16th-18th century as those time periods interest me the most)
    I think most people would feel that the "North East" has a southern border around Stonehaven or, maybe at a push, Arbroath. The area is and has been very variable commercially and culturally with the seaboard traditionally focussed on fishing, the agricultural land concentrated on different types of farming typified 100-200 years ago by the system of "feeing"
    http://www.nefa.net/archive/songmusicdance/bothy/
    and the western area which is indeed in the Highlands - the last native speaker of Deeside Gaelic died in 1984.

    Alan
    Last edited by neloon; 7th December 16 at 06:05 AM.

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  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Q View Post
    I'd say that is more like the situation today, rather than a hundred or more years ago.
    Farming wise, yes the light green areas are / were more farming than crofting, but culturally the Gaelic language was much more common than today spreading towards the coasts north of Fife.

    However that map is a neat straight line, in general you didn't cross the road to find a different language and culture, as you approched the east more would speak English / Inglis /Scots less would speak the Gaelic.
    I suspect it's based on this map

    However if you look at this DNA map

    You'll see the North East Scotland 1 / 2 DNA is much more resticted to part of Aberdeenshire and Bamffshire roughly, but the triangle for the Gaelic (NI / W Scotland) DNA goes right out to the coast (though they could do with more samples for the area we are looking at, on this map).
    and finally this map
    .
    shows that the Old county boundaries crossed both the Highland and lowlands of the first map further bluring the definition of what each is.
    If you look at this site http://www.foggieloan.co.uk/, You'll see that the New town was created by Alexander Gordon, the laird of Auchintoul, and the Gordon clan is shown firmly on the highland side of the clan map.

    So which language did they speak, primarily we don't know, but likely to be the Gaelic as their first language, but also they were likely to be able to speak the local Dialect of English.

    What clothes did they wear, well New Foggie was created 1764, After the '45, so then the most likely the standard clothes of trousers and shirt, (even after the restrictions were dropped). But as you say your ancesters were there before the planned town of Foggie, and we have no way of knowing for certain what your ancesters Pre the 45 chose to wear as the area was a mix of cultures.

    Food, it would depend on how wealthy they were and what they did for a living, certainly from looking at whats on the Foggie site, they would have grown there own veg in their gardens, oats would have been a cheap filler, potatos were known by 1600, so by 1700 it is possible they grew those, how much meat and fish depended on wealth.
    Thank you! All I know about my ancestors is they lived in the Marnoch area as far back as the 17th Century, And probably moved their when the Innes family had control over the lands, And prior to that came from somewhere in Moray so if I can find where they came from prior to Marnoch maybe that would help too. P.S. Thanks for the food thing, Ive been watching Jas. Townsed and son of youtube trying to learn 18th century foods but I'm guessing it would have been different everywhere depending on where you came from, Like it is today.
    PROUD descendent of the Innes Clan! and a Yorkshireman! Or maybe I'm a.... Yorkshire Clansman?

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