Pocket watch chains

[Jock Scot]

I think the buttonhole of jacket lapels were actually for buttons that would be hidden under the opposite lapel when the jacket was worn open, but could be buttoned when the lapels were flipped up for wet/cold weather. I used to have a military-issue trench coat that actually had a button on the right shoulder under a button flap. When the left lapel was flipped up to cover the chest, it could be buttoned to the right shoulder and the button flap then attached to a small button sewn to the underside of the left lapel.

I'll see if I can find an image of this online. Edit: Found one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Army-Quar...-/272621539569
(tried posting the image, but it was too small to see the details, so here's the ebay listing).

In response to the OP, I don't have a t-bar for my pocket watch, it has a belt clip at the end of the chain. If I did, I think I would also want to keep it on the inside of my waistcoat unless it were also decorative.

My tweed shooting jackets(that also stand in for sports jackets) have the lapel button hole that fits a button under the lapel on the opposite side. A very useful option on wet, windy, cold days when in the field. Many tweed hacking jackets also have that option--------although many hacking jackets never see a horse these days, so I am not sure if the lapel button "hole" would even accept a button these days never mind a T bar.

[EagleJCS]

My tweed shooting jackets(that also stand in for sports jackets) have the lapel button hole that fits a button under the lapel on the opposite side. A very useful option on wet, windy, cold days when in the field. Many tweed hacking jackets also have that option--------although many hacking jackets never see a horse these days, so I am not sure if the lapel button "hole" would even accept a button these days never mind a T bar.

True enough, Jock. I suspect on most suit jackets and sport coats it's "vestigial". It probably once served a function but is merely there for appearances these days. I used to cut the threads holding the buttonhole closed when I wanted to use it for a boutonniere and actually have the stem hidden and show just the flower. Only did that to a couple of jackets. I haven't been to an event where a jacket was expected - much less a boutonniere! - for several years.

[Macman]

Just for interest, I saw an ad for Ralph Lauren in a magazine at the doctor's office this morning. It was a young man in a jacket and (tartan) tie. His T-bar was worn on the outside of his lapel buttonhole, and the watch-chain went into his left breast pocket.

[Walkman]

Interesting topic. I took a look at old photos of kilted royals and noticed that while King Edward VII wore the bar on the inside where it didn't show, his son King George V wore it on the outside where it did. Likewise, while King Edward VIII (far right in the fourth photo attached below) wore the bar on the outside, his brother King George VI (second from left) wore it on the inside. They continued to do so as adults as well.

Bottom line - I think it has always been simply a matter of preference. Personally, I wear mine on the inside.

[Walkman]

N/A - duplicate post.

[Luke MacGillie]

True enough, Jock. I suspect on most suit jackets and sport coats it's "vestigial". It probably once served a function but is merely there for appearances these days. I used to cut the threads holding the buttonhole closed when I wanted to use it for a boutonniere and actually have the stem hidden and show just the flower. Only did that to a couple of jackets. I haven't been to an event where a jacket was expected - much less a boutonniere! - for several years.

You can still find this option, these photos are of country clothes for both men and women from recent ebay listings. You can hunt for vintage clothing, or go the bespoke route, but yes, vestigial is probably right!

[tripleblessed]

Growing up I saw them worn to the inside unless there was also a medal of some sort on the same link as the T-bar. I think I have
never seen a man wear it from the lapel; only women did so in my part of the South.

[Friday]

Looking at this from a mechanical point of view. If you wore a waistcoat on almost a daily basis and wore the "t" bar on the inside wouldn't this create a potential wear point. Every time you move the waistcoat will rub against the shirt. If the "t" bar is between the waistcoat and shirt it would move with the waistcoat causing friction on the shirt. Even if the "t" bar is caught between the button hole flap and the button flap there would be friction. The friction would wear holes.

This might not be a significant issue, but, depending on the design of the "t" bar it could be a problem.

[Jock Scot]

Looking at this from a mechanical point of view. If you wore a waistcoat on almost a daily basis and wore the "t" bar on the inside wouldn't this create a potential wear point. Every time you move the waistcoat will rub against the shirt. If the "t" bar is between the waistcoat and shirt it would move with the waistcoat causing friction on the shirt. Even if the "t" bar is caught between the button hole flap and the button flap there would be friction. The friction would wear holes.

This might not be a significant issue, but, depending on the design of the "t" bar it could be a problem.

I would not loose too much sleep over it if I were you.

[McMurdo]

Funny, when I first got my Waltham pocket watch I put the T Bar through so you could see it from the outside. I posted all of this on thte forum as I'd never worn one before, it was Jock who said:

That sets things off nicely,well done. May I give you a wee tip? The T bar of the chain is normally threaded from the outside of the waistcoat so that it sits out of sight on the inside.Why? You will find that the chain hangs from the centre(ish) of the waistcoat and looks better.. Of course it may be that you are stamping your way of doing things. In which case ,"shut up Jock".

After that I've worn the watch chain with the TBar on the inside.